NCCG Critics : Updates on www.geocities.com/nccg_concern: they keep sneaking in
Choose another message board
 
Prev Discussion  Next Discussion  Send Replies to My Inbox 
Reply
Recommend  Message 1 of 9 in Discussion 
From: Dutchservant  (Original Message) Sent: 3/14/2006 11:01 AM
Updates of the ongoing investigation on the NCCG at http://www.geocities.com/nccg_concern reveal that lately the investigator(s) have been visiting the Deliverance From Demons chat sessions. I think the following information is new:

"The contents of the "Deliverance from Demons" chatroom has been observed on a number of occasions. The log files provided of these chats have been retained but can not be released publically at this time due to the ongoing nature of this investigation.

This chatroom appears to be a milieu control environment. Some facts about how the chat is conducted are:

* Much group discussion and activities are led by "Community Moderator" (Christopher Warren) and "Female Moderator" (Jannicke Larsen);
* A verbal and behavioral protocol appears to be in place where Warren and Larsen are treated as parent-like figures. Referral to the pair by many of the chat participants as "Dad" and "Mom" is very extensive and repetitive, and could be described as exaggerated sounding.
* When strange dreams and other mental phenomena, including those which resemble psychotic episodes or psychological problems, are reported by the lower-ranking or new chat participants, they are often explained by Warren, Larsen, or other higher-ranking group members as being caused by demons
* Chat participants who do not follow what appears to be an expected path of accepting the determinations of Warren and Larsen are ejected from the chatroom;
* Young people who have relationships with non-group biological parents are coached to cut the relationships and cultural ties off, but not to alienate the parents financially if they are still needed"...

There are other updates as well.



First  Previous  2-9 of 9  Next  Last 
Reply
Recommend  Message 2 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCommunity_Moderator Sent: 3/16/2006 1:02 PM
I do not expect justice let alone discernment from this man/woman because he/she has proven him/hertself inaccurate on so many occasions.
 
* Young people who have relationships with non-group biological parents are coached to cut the relationships and cultural ties off, but not to alienate the parents financially if they are still needed"...
 
Every Bible-based church or denomination teaches that we need to imitate Yah'shua so obviously if you have non-believing parents you teach their children the truth and not to imitate their false ways. To teach that we tell young members to totally distance themselves from their parents is wicked. We desire that they imitate ALL the good in their parents but reject that with is wrong. What this person would have us believe that we should accept that parents have the absolute right to teach their chidlren anything they want without alternative information. Well, for young children this is true - it's not our responsibility. The writer fails to point out that all the young people we counsel are over 18 and are legally entitled to think the way they want to (the only exception is with satanists who in any case abuse their children and are criminals).
 
So, yes, of course we encourage young people to cut wrong ties but to say that we recommend they maintain only economic ties (so they can be "used") is not only cynical but wicked. But then I don't think the author has a clue what is meant by a "tie" - he certainly doesn't believe in spiritual matters (actually he reminds me of one of the spin-doctors used by satanists to debunk their underground world of horror). We teach ALL our young people to love their biological parents with all their hearts in pure Agape Love as Yah'shgua taught. The only ties we advise them to cut are psychic ones that would manipulate, control and otherwise harm their children emotionally and mentally (i.e. abuse) - like denigrating their worth, etc.. A lot of parents do that and destroy their children. Those kinds of ties we want cut - obviously.
 
* Chat participants who do not follow what appears to be an expected path of accepting the determinations of Warren and Larsen are ejected from the chatroom;
 
I think this has maybe happened 5-6 times in all the years we have been online. It happened last week so it is clear that someone who was in the chat last week is a spy for this writer. The person in question (for the record) claimed that "God was a computer on the moon" and challenged opur ability to discern and made various other outrageous statements and was taking over the chat room with his own agenda. As other clients needed assistance and he was just attacking the moderators, he was ejected. And I don't recall anyone objecting.
 
The rest isn't worth commenting on.
 
 

Reply
Recommend  Message 3 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCommunity_Moderator Sent: 4/6/2006 10:32 AM
I was referred to the latest updates yesterday only to find that it is again jam packed with more facts taken out of context and twisted in such a way that things which the world would regard as normal (like changing ones beliefs and views, as we all do) are cast in a shadowy 'cultic' light. Persuaded by a member of my family, I took the matter in prayer to Yahweh last night and He told me two things:
 
(1) That the man is very much like myself in dedication and passion (he must be to invest so much time researching such a small fellowship in such depth); Yahweh led me to understand that had I myself chosen a path of dishonesty and darkness that I probably would have ended up much like him - a sophisticated version of Goebbels (sobering thought); and
 
(2) He showed me a vision of a table outside which was upturned by an invisible hand, meaning that Yahweh would turn over this man's table in His own way and time as Yah'shua did the money-changers because he is making commercial spiritual trade of other people's lives calculated to sow distrust and disharmony.
When I read his writing I am constantly seeking to find balance. The fact that there is not one positive things to be said about us in his "report" is proof conclusive in my mind that this man has an evil agenda, for even if we were what he would like others to believe we are (e.g. a Jim Jones or David Koresh cult), he would at least have to admit that like his "typical Christian" (not sure what he means by that - a lukeworm nominal Protestant or an RC priest molesting choir boys?) we do at least have the same Christology as they do (since we affirm and uphold the Apostles' Creed to the letter).
 
I prayed for this man's soul last night by asking Yahweh to shine the light of truth on it so that he might be saved from the dark forces that steer him. The pretended agenda of a concerned "typical Christian" will be exposed like Yahweh has always exposed His enemies. I pray that he may come to the joy and peace that we know and find fellowship with the Commonwealth of Israel for inside him I detect a very angry and lonely little boy seeking to be loved.
 
 
 

Reply
Recommend  Message 4 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCadavi00 Sent: 4/6/2006 9:44 PM
"Blessed are those who are persecuted beacause of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."  "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me." "Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you." Matthew 5:10-12

Reply
Recommend  Message 5 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknameteh_bondservant Sent: 4/7/2006 5:07 PM
Referencing the thought that someone takes so much time researching such a small group reminds me of a thing in my personal life.
My wife and I are going to counselling for issues we have between us, and the counselling couple mentioned in passing that people are speculating about us, especially my intentions.
 
The reason I say this, I can't believe people spend so much time on things that really are none of their business, especially when they could spend the same amount of time in personal study, and probably come up to the same conclusion most of us here have come to, at least if they studied without the filters the common church has taught.
So I would deduct from the similarities between the two would be this has to be a personal thing. NCCG is a small thing, (although depending on what you type into a google search engine, the nccg.org site does pop up fairly frequently). My life is a small thing also, so when someone takes the time to analyse either and spends time talking or gossiping about another's business, my guess it would be for a personal reason, probably even an agenda.
 

Reply
Recommend  Message 6 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCommunity_Moderator Sent: 4/7/2006 9:16 PM
We did have someone threaten to do an 'exposé' on us because his buddy had been thrown off one of our groups for being demeaning to woman so he is one candidate.

Reply
Recommend (1 recommendation so far)  Message 7 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCommunity_Moderator Sent: 4/10/2006 12:04 AM
Menstruation and Lunar Cycles
 
It has been brought to our attention of late that Section 222 of the Olive Branch has been called into question by certain persons determined to prove we are a cult who declare it must be a fraud because it asserts a connection between the moon and the menstrual cycle of women (vv.13-14). They insist that the variation of the length of the menstrual cycle and the fact that it has been shown that hormones play a major part in its regulation disproves lunar involvement.
 
The few quotations below demonstrate a direct link between menstrual cycles and lunar influences whether gravitational or in terms of light. The revelation does not state that every menstrual cycle is the same duration as the lunar cycle. It simply states, correctly, that it is a regulator. In as much as it has been conclusively demonstrated that some enzyme activity cycles follow lunar cycles, and given that hormone production is itself a function of enzyme production (because the enzymes catalyse the manufacture of hormones) then there is no reason to suppose that the moon does not influence menstrual cycles by either enzyme activity inhibition or enhancement or by light emmission. Mensutual cycles are influenced by natural light as well as stress.
 
The anti-cultists attempting to discredit us simply reveal their agenda even more as well as showing their scientific ignorance. Do they really think that I, as a Biochemist, who am aware of the biochemical basis of menstruation, would be so stupid to maintain what they are saying, or claim revelation contrary to the known facts of science (and I speak not of philosophy like evoltion but of verifiable and repeatable experimental data)?
 
I continue to maintain - as the Olive Branch states - that the moon does indeed regulate menstrual cycles. This does not mean that other forces do not, however, play their part to disrupt or alter it.
 
The dishonesty of these so called "professional deprogrammers", who are themselves often just brainwashing their victims, is unbelievably arrogant. They never tell us who they are, what they believe, or what their agenda is.
 
This information has been prepared to get people to think more deeply about these so called "professionals" whose agenda is usually atheism with all its cultic biases.
 

 
 
"Here are some curious facts concerning menstruation. In the absence of man-made light, a woman's menstrual cycle will synchronize with the phases of the moon. When this happens, ovulation occurs when the moon is full and menstruation starts with the start of a new moon." (http://www.the-clitoris.com/f_html/period.htm).
 

 
"This study shows a relationship between the changing phases of the moon and the propensity for menstrual onset in women. This phenomenon was demonstrated in the subset of 229 women who cycle as often as the moon cycles. Cutler's earlier report (1980a) had shown that data of non-29.5+1 day cyclers distributed randomly about the lunar month. This was expected from mathematical considerations when one realizes the nature of the cycles. For example, if the lunar cycle were drawn as a clock that had 30 (rounded up from 29.5) "pie sectors", and a particular woman who did not have a 29.5 day cycle was charting her data, certain phenomena would emerge. As an example, consider a women who menstruates on a regular 35 day cycle. If she plotted 6 cycles of her own on the 30 day clock, and the first cycle appeared at the full moon, then the next cycle would appear 5 days after the full moon and the third cycle would be 5 days later than, and so on. Thus, a woman who has a regular 35 day cycle would eventually distribute her onsets completely around the clock and fail to show any lunar relationship. Similar considerations occur when we chart cross-sectional data of women with non-29.5 day cycles. One would expect a rather random distribution around the clock.

It is noteworthy that a number of studies have shown that the 29.5+ 1 day lunar cycle is coincident with the most fertile menstrual cycle (Vollman 1968, 1970, 1977; Treloar et al. 1967)

In the 4 separate studies of women living naturally, visual inspection of the figures (1 through 4) suggests a common phenomenon: the highest density in every case appears to be at about the full moon: that is 15 or so days after the new moon. The small Spring sample does not appear to differ from these Autumn samples, suggesting no seasonal effect. Although only Figures 2 and 3 contain sufficiently large samples for statistically significant difference from a non-uniform distribution, the similarity in graphs is noteworthy.

The menstrual life of a woman is known to pass through three phases: 1) the pubescent occupying the first 7 years after menarche; 2) the reproductive years; and 3) the premenopausal occupying the last 7 years before menstruation ceases (Cutler and Garcia 1984). It is during the reproductive years of women that the 29.5+1 day cycle most commonly occurs and in larger scale studies, an incidence of approximately 32% is obtained (Vollman 1977). Thus, it is during the reproductive years (approximately age 20 through 42) when this lunar influence would be testable.

It is not surprising to learn of a coordinated phase relationship between the reproductive cycles of women and the repeating cycle of lunar periods because even a cursory review of the literature shows that many different animals show a reproductive system reaction to external stimuli. Exogenous influences on the fertility of organisms have been demonstrated in several species with respect to geophysically ordered time. A seasonal variation in human birth rate has been documented with troughs in Spring and peaks in Autumn (Rosenberg 1966; Pasamanick et al. 1959). Coordinated phase relationships between reproductive rhythms and lunar rhythms are documented in monkeys, genus Cercopithecus (Reiter 1972) as well as in the fiddler crabs (Brown et al. 1953). Persistent activity rhythms that are coordinated with lunar rhythms have been well documented in a variety of organisms including the frog, Rana pipiens (Robertson 1978), the crab Carcinus maenas (Naylor 1958, 1960), the marine worm Platynereis (Havenschild 1960), the hamster (Brown 1967), and planarians (Brown et al. 1975).

The demonstration that women who cycle as often as the moon tend to be the most fertile and that among these women there is an increased propensity for menstruation at or about the full moon is particularly noteworthy. Historical indication that fertility rites were scheduled with consideration for the phase of the moon may have been reflecting accurate perceptions which we have yet to discover." (http://www.athenainstitute.com/lunarmpl.html)


The Moon Cycle

A normal menstrual cycle is actually more like a moon cycle. Interestingly, the only event in human life that corresponds to the lunar calendar is menstruation. Time itself was probably first measured by the moon's phases. One of the problems with the current English calendar is that the months don't coincide exactly with the solar year. In our current system, the months were made to fit by Gregory XIII, who gave them an arbitrary number of days unrelated to the moon calendar. So our calendar actually puts us out of sync with the moon.

The word menstrual comes from the Latin word mens meaning "month"; the word month comes from the root word moon. The Greek word for moon is mene, while menstruation actually means "moon change." (In some dictionaries, the root word for month and menstruation is measure.) The point of all this is to simply establish that a far more accurate and positive interpretation of menstruation was recorded in our history through language.

Countless other languages and cultures link menstruation to the moon as well. German peasants literally refer to menstruation as "the moon," while the French term for menstruation is le moment de la lune ("the moment of the moon"). The Mandingo, Susus, and Congo tribes also call menstruation "the moon," while in parts of East Africa, menstruation is thought to be caused by the new moon. The Papuans believe that the moon has intercourse with girls, triggering their periods; the Maori call menstruation "moon sickness"; the Fuegians call the moon "The Lord of the Women." Clearly the belief that the lunar cycle is identical to the menstrual cycle is universal. There is even some remarkable physical evidence that connects the moon to menstruation even more; for example, the cervix, metra in Greek, referring again to the word measurement, and also called the "meter of a woman," changes color, size, and position during menstruation. In fact, when it's viewed with a speculum (an instrument doctors use to open up the vagina), the cervix has been said to resemble a globe. Even in pregnancy, the embryo is shaped like the moon; the embryo starts out round and full, and as it becomes a fetus, it curves like the half-moon.

All this evidence suggests that women are perhaps far more in tune to the natural rhythms of the universe than they think. Meanwhile, comprehending the similarities between the menstrual and lunar cycles is crucial in order to understand what a healthy, normal menstrual cycle really is. Women are also in tune with other women's cycles; two women living together will often synchronize cycles. The rhythmic timing of menstruation also provides women with a sense of their own timing, other than just daylight. (http://www.webmd.com/content/Article/85/98753.htm)


 



Reply
Recommend  Message 8 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknameteh_bondservant Sent: 4/11/2006 8:53 PM
quoting the moderator:
We did have someone threaten to do an 'exposé' on us because his buddy had been thrown off one of our groups for being demeaning to woman so he is one candidate.
Again, I suspect someone needs to get a life of their own.
I've sensed public opinion to be that almost all men in the Scripture mistreated women.


Reply
Recommend  Message 9 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCommunity_Moderator Sent: 4/12/2006 1:33 PM
Believe it or not, under the influence of this anti-cult "ministry", one of our catechumens (investigators) was subjected to "deprogramming" from a Rick Ross associate.  I have asked him to write this experience up so that everyone can see how these 'de-programmers' are in fact, brainwashing people themselves.
 
The 'deprogrammer' tried to prove we were a cult on the following grounds (that I was told):
 
1. A claimed false prophecy in the Olive Branch about Czechoslovakia (you can pretty much read it anyway you want to, depending on your agenda);
 
2. The claim that science disproved that the moon had an influence on the woman's menstrual cycle as claimed by the Olive Branch (see earlier post in this thread);
 
3. The claim that anyone coming to headquarters who was expected to have an income was in effect engaging in 'slave labour'. As a matter of interest, I was the only income generator at HQ for years as I had a full-time job commuting between Sweden and Norway whilst running NCCG at the same time - I guess that means I am my own victim of cultism myself since I have been the biggest slave labourer for the group (perhaps I should deprogram myself);
 
4. The claim that Jesus did not exist simply because in an article I said that the WORD 'Jesus' did not exist before the 1500's (note this is a so called "professional" deprogrammer - but rumour has it the Inquisition was professional too ... they were pretty professional about their business);
 
5. The claim that those who join our communities are prisoners and aren't allowed leave - the truth is people come and go as they please;
 
etc..
 
The idiocy of these people is quite amazing.
 
The 'de-programmer' also confessed that they had a 'mole' in the DFD Group (so presumably that same 'mole' is in here too) which means the mole would have had to have lied to have got into DFD (because a DFD form has to be filled in). Correct me if I am wrong, but it has generally been my impression that if you're prepared to engage in lying to achieve one end, you are likely to do the same to achieve others. I am reminded of the Moonies' "heavenly deception", namely, the means justfying the end. I think it is obvious who the real cultists are.
 
One thing I am sure of is that these people are going to trip up on their own feet eventually.

Reply
Recommend  Message 13 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCommunity_Moderator Sent: 5/11/2006 6:25 PM
Mr. Mole, Mr. Hacker and his friend at nccg_concern (assuming they are not one and the same) are getting more vocal as well as more clumsy. See:
 
 
Whoever he/they are, they seem to be devoting their life to this, has made lots more mistakes, and has suddenly become 'Mr. Nice Man' - he was much more 'sophisticated'  and 'benign' in the beginning. One thing I am quite sure of is that he will trip over his own feet eventually and expose himself/themselves. We know without a shadow of a doubt we are being hacked, that information is leaking through from hacked private material to nccg_concern, and whether nccg_concern is the hacker himself or not (I have never said he was, incidentally), there is no doubt he is in cahoots with criminals (ignorantly or deliberately, I have no idea). And as to whether he is a satanist ot not is also unknown to me, but I have no doubt whatsoever that he is receiving information either from satanists or their sympathisers who we have known for years have been hacking our Yahoo and MSN accounts. He can call me paranoid if he wants but the fact is I am not ignorant of his methods or psychological devices. His self-defence postures are pathetic:
 
"This web site author has never had the ability to monitor the internet connection at the group's compound." "Also, this web site author has never "doctored" information obtained through research nor fabricated research information, is not associated with Rick Ross" http://www.geocities.com/nccg_concern/strange.html
 
I mean, come on, we're not kindergarden kids. So long as he is secretive, doesn't say who he is, what he believes in, and refuses to tell us what he is REALLY about, he can hardly be very credible. Certainly a court of law would throw out such a 'witness'. And his "mole" is in DFD dishonestly, so his slate is far from 'clean'. If he had wanted to find out information, he could have asked everyone instead of assuming by default that we were a 'cult'. I hope he lives in France one day and finds himself up against the law, then he'll know what it feels like to be guilty until proven innocent.
 
The group of postings in Rick Ross' 'benign' organisation contains the names of at least one familiar person from California who comes from a KKK (Klu Klux Klan) and Fundamentalist Mormon background:
 
 
who briefly married a former member who went his own way after deciding that he still believed in some Mormon tenets which we rejected.
 
The style of some of the posters here is similar to others who posted in a now defunct Yahoo group a couple of years ago which was disbanded because those accusing me of "hurting" them were all giving contradictory accounts. We exposed some of the false witnesses in there quite accidentally, actually, when a friend of mine joined the group and was viciously accused of impersonating me. I think the source of real paranoia is obvious.
 
Anyway, I am posting all  their material here in this board so that people can see we are not intimidated but the wheelings and dealings of these people. We know the truth and the truth will overturn them and reveal their true motives in the end.
 
I feel sorry for them.
 
"Mr.Compound"
 
 
 

Reply
Recommend  Message 14 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameZealforYahweh Sent: 5/11/2006 6:53 PM
Wouldn't "Headmaster of the Compound" be more appropriate, Dad?

Reply
Recommend  Message 15 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCommunity_Moderator Sent: 5/11/2006 8:57 PM
Nah, Kommandant or Sturmbanführer

Reply
Recommend  Message 16 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCadavi00 Sent: 5/11/2006 11:16 PM
It's amazing how this guy has taken alot from posts and suggested all of them were to you and the more he talks seems to point out who he really is in cohorts with. I mean I thought you said a hacker or spy was in the group online, but he admits to a lot of other things huh? Ah well! 
 
Yahweh Bless,
 
Your faithful cult follower

Reply
Recommend  Message 17 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCommunity_Moderator Sent: 5/12/2006 12:02 PM
Actually we have had a lot of amusement of out this man's nonsense even though it actually isn't so funny when you realise what he is doing. Deeep down, of course, it hurts when your integrity is attacked, especially when your attacker remains hidden and will not enter into cilivilzed dialogue. His excuses for remaining hidden are just rubbish. Even some of our severest critics from the past have admitted publically that we are not about to physically attack anyone, that we are gentle and pacifists. We follow the injuction to love our enemies and to pray for those whod espitefully use us. The man needs to own up as to who he is, what he believes, and make himself accountable. When you try to make someone else accountable for their actions but refuse to be treated by the same standard that you expect of others, that is called in anyone's book plain, simple hypocrisy and cowardice. Moreover, the Rich Ross group falls for the same trap that all 'anti' groups fall for, namely, they accept uncritically all criticism from anonymous persons without any kind of vetting system for honesty and credibility. Realistically, they don't have the time - however, if you're going to devote your life to pulling people down, then you must submit to some kind of testing yourself and open yourself up to full scrutiny, and must prove that your methods are honourable and truthful.
 
Bad-mouthing and character-assassination are notoriously easy. We read stories i the newspapers all the time. As a retired school teacher, my colleagues and I used to hurt for those dedicated teachers who were accused of misconduct, go through hell while they were put through the public gaze, and then - after months of harrassment and false accustion finally be acquitted. But by this time their lives were wrecks, people still believed the lies and rumours ever after the courts vindicated them, and most never returned to the teaching profession again because no one would trust them. Their enemies knew - assuming there was a conspiracy (sometimes it's just paranoid parents or members of the public obsessed with political correctness who go overboard) - that even if their victims are acquitted, the stigma by assoaciation still remains to haunt long afterwards.
 
The lives of weaker people are destroyed by such things. However, we who lean not on the arm of flesh but on our Messiah, who have His strength behind us, and the loyal support of good brothers and sisters, do not bow to such methods so easily. And having been through this kind of slander, villification, and false accustion before, we have become tough. But it is not easy for new people and especially young people who are the targets of such activity. Moreover, it's not all 'satanists' who get sucked up into this kind of immorality but often well-meaning people who have personal issues of their own and don't know what they are doing.
 
We live in a paranoid society who love to blame-shift. I remember in my last school our gymnastics teacher lived in perpetual fear that if she were to accidentally touch a pupil or support a pupil in some gymnastic position she might get accused of being a child molester. And of course, the men are more likely to be accused that the women. The fault lies with society itself which has accepted the kind of liberalism that allows for the mushrooming of perversion. Perverts could fear for their lives before and were restrained by the courts. Pedophiles faced the death penality, adulterers and fornicators stiff penalties, and perjury was still regarded as anathema. Not so today. Today's moral relativism has bread this unholy atmosphere where everyone has to live in paranoid fear that they might suddenly become the victim of some poltically correct zealot looking for opportunity to accuse both the innocent and guilty. Society's choice for liberalism has bred it's own tyrrany.
 
Why does our accuser hide himself if not because he is paranoid about his own safety? When I was younger honest men and women spoke their minds without fear and risked the consequences. Not so today. Today a back-stabbing mentality prevails without anyone taking responsibility. And when people do get hurt - as they inevitably must do in such an environment - they must learn that they bear part of the blame for their lack of openness and honesty. To claim you have been 'hurt' by someone doesn't mean that another person has hurt you per se - people get hurt' for all sort of imaginary reasons. A modicum of psychology will show you that. So when people come onto Rick Ross's group and say they have been 'hurt' by me there are always at least four possible origins of that 'hurt':
 
1. I actually hurt them through some malicious and dishonest conduct;
2. I 'hurt' them by telling them the truth about themselves which they didn't want to hear;
3. They lied and are simply false witnesses;
4. They were guilty of some malicious or dishonest practice against me and simply refused to admit responsibility and blame-shifted, and psycho-somatically acted out the hurt until it became real to them.
 
Now an honest investigative ministry would insist on properly checking out motives, at best a difficult task and often impossible because the deliberate liars will always seek to actively remain concealed. That is why in Torah accusers were always expected to present themselves physically within a community where they were well known where living witnesses could testify as to their integrity or lack of it. Morever, the accusations should be to the one accused in full opennness.
 
Now none of these safeguards is actually maintained by the Rick Ross group. Everything is shrouded in secrecy, there are no proper accountability structures other than, we suppose, a cabal of those who share the same life philosophy (hence Ross' universal categorisation of all Messianic Jews as 'cultic') which is never identified.
 
The other day my family were having a laugh at the antics of these so called 'paragons of virtue' as we listed all the 'cultic' qualities of Yah'shua and the apostles using their criteria. (It wouldn't surprise me if they actually regarded Yah'shua as a cultist but dare not admit it for fear of losing their Christian supporters). I mean the man was 'paranoid' (calling respecatble religious leaders 'vipers'), he spoke very 'strangely' (about eating his flesh and blood), he was violent and should be kept far away from (disrupting business in the Temple by throwing stuff around in a fir of rage), he was likely quite mad (cursing a fig tree), a thief (stealing somone one's ass), and much besides.
 
You see, it is possible to look at anyone anyway you want to given a little bias and prejudice. Really, to be fait, we should be allowed to go through Rick Ross' and nccg_concern's, Mr, Mole's and Mr. Hackers lives with a comb, don't you? I mean, fair's fair. I wonder what we'd find? I guarantee it would be very interesting indeed. In fact, I would wager that all of them would be found wanting and that the accusation of hypocrisy would fall easily from a carefully scrutinising public.
 
The difference between me and them is that I publish my life for all to see. Apart from my bedroom and close family life, which as I have said is no one's business, everything is an open book. My history, my beliefs, my education, my history, my qualifications - all is paraded. It's all on our websites, including hobbies, interests, sports, etc.. I even publish the hostile things written about us, even the most malicious ones, so that people can know that we are not afraid of the truth and that everyone can honestly investigate and ask whatever they want. People who take the time to get to know us know what kind of morality we pursue. I have even invited enemies to my home to comer and see the truth for themselves (at least the non-murdering variety). I offer them the opportunity to debate in public following some basic rules of decency but nearly all of them refuse. Why? Isn't it obvious? It is because they are DISHONEST MEN AND WOMEN.
 
I believe I have a moral right to claim that any critic attacking me should be equally as open or simply back off and look to his own soul and accountability to Yahweh.
 
We now jokingly call our barn the "Rickh Ross Interrogation Center". We do noit take these people seriously any more. We know their dishonest methods, their paranoia and the vaccuousness of their belief system. It's plain to see. I challenge them to come clean and allow themselves to be examined in as much microscopic detail as they are attempting (rather badly) to do with us. We see through their pretenses, their false humility and benificence to the world. It is plain that there is a grudge or some kind of an agenda. People are suffering because of them and they are ultimately accountable for aiding and abetting that. Yahweh will not hold them guiltless.

Reply
Recommend  Message 18 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCadavi00 Sent: 5/12/2006 5:44 PM
Isn't it something when you have righteous leaders how people hate them because of the truth they speak. But when you have leaders who aren't firm and respond to mistakes one makes as not to hurt there feelings because it's wrong to hurt their feelings, he's a good leader. Or Prophets who only prophecy wealth in people lives, I know people who are still waiting for these riches and never will see them and are doing everything but love one another, it's hurtful and upsetting. When you get leaders such as  yourself, no one wants to hear them.

Reply
Recommend  Message 19 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameZealforYahweh Sent: 5/13/2006 6:53 PM
Apparently Rick Ross use to practice involuntary kidnapping of adult cult members. There is an e-mail debate revealing this here: http://www.rickross.com/reference/deprogramming/deprogramming9.html
 
An article of which he apparently approves of (giving its availability on his site) likewise chronicles how some cult deprogrammers kidnapped a couple to get them out of a cult:
 
The question remains is following: If cult deprogrammers are free to kidnap people (Rick Ross only seemed to stop not because he deemed it immoral, but to keep from being sued), why can't we snatch atheists off the street and 'deprogram' them from atheism? What is it about these actions that makes cult deprogrammers 'moral' while making us 'immoral' if we do the same things?
 
Now maybe NCCG_Concern does not do these things, but nonetheless I would love to hear his opinion on the matter. So you know, I joined NCCG of my own free will. Likewise, I am free to leave. Freedom of choice is never restricted in NCCG. However, while involved in this group, people are expected to follow a set code of rules, just like they would in a school or the workplace. Those who don't follow our rules are forcibly removed. Do you then apply this criteria to these social institutions? Bottom line: anything can be a cult if you want it to be. As Ross himself said, Cults can be a four-letter filth word to discredit anything you disagree with.
 
Sincerely,
Derek
 
P.S. BTW, life at the 'compound' is just grand.

Reply
Recommend  Message 20 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCommunity_Moderator Sent: 5/13/2006 7:51 PM
Exposing The Criminal Clique Called "CAN"
Disclaimer: Citing this article does not imply that we support the beliefs of practices of those who have prepared it. It is cited to show some facts about the so-called "cult deprogrammers" which would suggest that in fact their agenda is hatred of all religion.
 
# Excerpt from FREEDOM Magazine, Volume 24, Issue 1, October 1991.
FREEDOM Magazine is published by the Church of Scientology International
since 1968.

FREEDOM Magazine
6331 Hollywood Blvd., Suite 1200
Los Angeles, CA 90028-6329 #
 

Exposing
The Criminal Clique
Called "CAN"
 

Disclosures of criminality and perversions
rock anti-religious hate group.
 

A series of shocking revelations of criminality and bizarre misconduct have
shattered the sanctimonious facade of the anti-religious hate group, the Cult
Awareness Network, known as CAN.
   The latest disclosure is thatRichard Ross a "deprogrammer" under
investigation in Washington State for unlawful imprisonment pleaded guilty
in 1975 to charges of stealing $100,000 in diamonds and jewelry from a
Phoenix, Arizona, department store.
   The criminal Ross has been singled out for effusive praise by Cynthia
Kisser, executive director of CAN.
   "His name is among the half-dozen best deprogrammers in the country,"
Kisser said, while denyingcharges from national religious leaders that her
group is little more than a clearinghouse for kidnappers who look to profit
handsomely from breaking the religious beliefs of American citizens.
   The revelation of Ross' criminal past placed him in the ranks of others of
criminal or perverse distinction in the Cult Awareness Network, such as the
following:
   * Ted Patrick, a three-time convicted felon and notoriousdeprogrammer,
who is up on new charges in Washington State for unlawful imprisonment;
   * Michael Rokos, who resigned as president of CAN in October 1990 after
his sordid criminal background was exposed. In late 1990, it had been
revealed that Rokos had accepted probation before judgment for attempting to
get an undercover policeman to perform a perverse homosexual act entailing
bondage, humiliation and an unusual form of masochism;
   * Deprogrammer Cliff Daniels, recently featured in CAN's newsletter and
known to be a violent deprogrammer, who was arraigned on kidnapping charges
in Missisippi on May 9;
   * Psychiatrist Louis Jolyon West, a hate-filled enemy of religious freedom,
who has promoted stereotypes and misinformation about African Americans,
Native Americans, and other racial and ethnic groups. West, a long-time
experimenter with mind control drugs, is best known for having killed a bull
elephant with an overdose of LSD;
   * Psychologist Margaret Singer, whose "thought reform" theories, used by
CAN deprogrammers to justify their kidnappings, have been thrown out of court
three times in a row by judges. The judges found that her theories had no
significant backing in the scientific community, upsetting her highly
profitable "hired gun" business of testifying against religions;
   * Deprogrammer Steve Hassan, CAN's current apologist for Singer's
discredited theories, who once kept a victim tied up for three days while he
tried unsuccessfully to force the victim to renounce his religious beliefs.
Another victim of Hassan's was locked in a room for three days under guard and
not allowed to use the restroom alone, and a third victim was gagged and
dragged from her hotel room;
   * Priscilla Coates, head of the Los Angeles CAN chapter, who on a radio
show in July admitted to having had a person held at her house against his
will to be deprogrammed. On the same show, she blurted out that all CAN
members were actually deprogrammers; and:
   * Mary Weeks, Advisory Board member to CAN's Northwest affiliate who
pleaded guilty in 1986 to criminal charges stemming from a kidnapping and
unsuccessful deprogramming attempt.

   * Recent Additions to the
   CAN Rogues' Gallery

   Drawn by the smell of money from deprogrammings, new adherents have been
attracted to CAN who fit in well with its godless mix of fringe professionals
and kidnappers for profit.
    One of these, Hana Whitfield, left South Africa and, according to a
relative, changed her name after her brother stabbed and battered their father
to death. Hana herself had earlier arranged to be in a hotel room alone with
her father and went so far as to raise a gun behind him to kill him, but could
not go through with the murder, her ex husband said. Her brother later did.
   Whitfield admits to taking the deadly psychiatric drug Prozac, known to make
people more violent and suicidal. She charges $1,500 a day for deprogrammings,
plus expenses.
   Her husband, Jerry Whitfield, who failed in an attempt to take over and
seize the assets of a drug rehabilitation group that had gotten him off drugs,
works with Hana.
   Jerry Whitfield, an alleged former drug dealer, is reported by relatives to
be a wife and child beater. He and his wife are the subject of a criminal
complaint which is under investigation by the state of California for
counseling without a license.
   Sharp disputes over territory have broken out in the deprogramming ranks
between the Whitfields, Steve Hassan, and Dennis Erlich, another newcomer to
CAN's ranks, who brings with him a history of petty thefts and family abuse.
   CAN members have shown that they will kidnap and attempt to destroy the
faith of anyone as long as the price is right. The long list of religions
targeted by CAN deprogrammers includes the catholic Church, the Episcopal
Church, the Church of Scientology, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day
Saints (Mormons), the Greek Orthodox Church, Seventh-day Adventists, Baptists
and many independent Christian denominations.

* Assaults Against
   Christian Denominations

   Deprogramming is a form of brainwashing which uses kidnapping, forcible
restraint, assault, battery and even rape in an effort to get an individual to
recant his or her chosen beliefs.
   Ross, who has carried out violent assaults, majorly against Christian
denominations, is known to charge up to $20,000 for a single kidnapping and
faith-breaking attempt.
   His victims have routinely been held hostage against their will and
brutally intimidated in attempts to force them to recant their chosen
religious beliefs.

 * Opportunist

   Following his 1975 arrest, Ross admitted that he and his accomplice, who
worked at the store, had planned the heist for three weeks.
   At the time he was taken into custody, Ross was already on probation
following two prior arrests, one for conspiracy to commit burglary in April
1975 and one for attempted robbery in December 1974.
   Prior to being sentenced, Ross was given a psychiatric evaluation which
noted, "The most significant aspect of Rick's past history is that he is an
opportunist. When he gets caught doing something that he should not do or
something that is a little shady, his characteristic response is, 'It's pretty
disgusting the way they make such a big deal about things.'"
   The examining doctor noted that Ross' psychological problems were serious
enough to have led him to make a "quite serious suicide attempt."
   A letter to the judge from Ross' attorney acknowledged Ross' "record of
anti-social, criminal conduct," but asked that the sentencing take into
consideration his "clear background of serious psychological and emotional
problems."
   Despite the seriousness of the crime, the Phoenix robbery proved to be far
from the end of Ross' criminal activities. The man described as "an
opportunist" found another outlet for deprogrammmg .
   Ross has been accused of kid- napping a young Seattle man, Jason Scott, who
was held hostage during a violent "deprogramming" by Ross and several
associates in March 1990.
   Scott told authorities that after he had been abducted, he was held in
handcuffs with his mouth taped shut.
Later, he was kept handcuffed to a bed and held against his will for five days.
During that time, four men, including Ross, continuously harassed and insulted
Scott, denigrating his religious beliefs for 10 to 14 hours a day.
   Scott eventually escaped his captors and  reported the assault to the
authorities. Seattle police found barred windows, handcuffs and varions other
restraints at the condominium where Ross had carried out the attempted faith
breaking.

* Praised by Hate Group

   Despite Ross' past and present criminal activities, members of the Cult
Awareness Network continue to praise him.
   "Rick has cooperated extensively with the national office of this
organization," said Reg Alev, a director of one of CAN's affiliates. "We
recommend him highly."
   The head of CAN's Los Angeles atfiliate lauded him. "Rick has helped me
with all kinds of questions, situations and problems," she said.
   Ross, who has boasted of having participated in more than 100 deprogramming
assaults, is not the first CAN member to have been convicted on criminal
charges.
   In October 1990, then CAN president Michael Rokos resigned his position
amid a storm of publicity that exposed his previously hidden criminal record.
Rokos had served on CAN's national board ol directors for four years and had
been an active member of the Baltimore CAN affiliate before being elected
national president in October 1989.
   Rokos stepped down following news reports describing his 1982 arrest by an
undercover Maryland State Police vice squad officer.
   The press accounts revealed that in July 1982, Rokos had attempted to
induce the undercover policeman to perform a perverse homosexual favor.
When caught, Rokos resisted arrest by attempting to forcibly expel the
arresting officer from his vehicle.

* Convicted Felon

   CAN's first and premier deprogrammer is Ted Patrick, the notorious "father
of deprogramming," who was also instrumental in founding the organization.
   In his 1976 book, Let Our Children Go, Patrick described his brand of
violent assault and faith breaking: "[D]eprogramming is the term, and it may
be said to involve kidnapping at the very least, quite often assault and
battery and almost invariably conspiracy to commit a crime, and illegal
restraint."
   In June 1974, Patrick was sentenced to a year in jail for false
imprisonment (suspended on parole). A year later, he spent 60 days in jail on
the same charge. From 1976 onward, he was further convicted or charged with
kidnapping, conspiracy, abduction and sexual battery. Patrick was later barred
trom entering Canada after an attempted deprogramming assault on a Catholic
nun. Patrick has continued to be an honored guest at CAN conventions.

 * Topless Dancer

   Cynthia Kisser, executive director of CAN since June 1987, has been another
long-time advocate of forcible restraint and assault conducted under the guise
of "deprogramming."
   Despite a glowing description of Kisser' s background in the CAN newsletter
announcing her appointment, it was recently revealed that in 1975, Kisser
reportedly worked as a topless dancer at the Blue Note Lounge in Tucson,
Arizona. She was fired after allegedly harassing the customers. Denied her
previous vocation, she overnight became an expert on religion so she could put
her harassive techniques to use on parishioners.
   Further data on her lack of qualifications came out under cross-examination
in a court case, when Kisser revealed that her actual studies of religion that
would qualify her as an expert consisted of a three-hour course at college in
World Religion.
   Kisser has few qualms about her open support of deprogamming-for-hire.
In 1978, she deprogrammed her own sister, then went on to conduct other
assaults.
   In a July 25, 1988, letter, Kisser noted that at one time CAN's national
board had formed an "ethics committee" for deprogrammers. The committee,
however, was later disbanded "because of potential liability problems that
could arise for CAN" on advice of CAN's lawyer.
   Those liabilities presumably stem from the fact that Kisser and other
 CAN members have continued to support deprogrammers like Richard Ross.
   Attempts to hide connections to criminal activities did not keep CAN and
Cynthia Kisser from being named as defendants in a $72 million suit involving
an illegal videotaping of a woman being harassed and abused concerning her
religious beliefs.

 * CAN is Hiding
   Under a Tax-Exempt Cloak

   Kisser and other CAN members profess no faith of their own they simply
object to other people freely practicing their own beliefs. Their "experts"
are repudiated psychiatrists and psychologists whose hatred for any form of
religion is undisguised.
Kisser has been a vocal mouthpiece for Eli Lilly, manufacturer of the
controversial and destructive psychiatric drug Prozac.
   CAN President Pat Ryan, who has engendered sympathy from the death of her
father, former Congressman Leo Ryan, is a lobbyist for the National
Association of Private Psychiatric Hospitals. Her profession is note-worthy as
deprogrammers have been reported to work hand in glove with psychiatrists to
commit and drug victims who prove recalcitrant in giving up their religious
beliefs.
   According to one report, Rick Ross, during a recent deprogramming in Yuma,
Arizona, boasted that he and others were working to get the ability to use
electric shock therapy in order to handle "resistive cases." Shock therapy is
a controversial and destructive psychiatric depersonalizing technique given
almost exclusively at private psychiatric hospitals. It is noteworthy that the
use of electric shock for the purposes Rick Ross and his CAN supporters
propose, is exactly that used by Russian psychiatric hospitals in Siberia to
cure "resistive cases" of non-communists.
   CAN's flagrant abuses have brought mounting questions regarding how such a
group, whose members want only violate constitutional rights, can enjoy
tax-exempt status. Indeed, CAN won its tax-exempt status at the high point of
violent deprogrammings done in its name, cloaking its activities under the
mantle of "education."
   The IRS initially rejected CAN's tax-exempt status as its presentation of
data was not sufficiently balanced.
Yet, a short time later, while CAN's deprogramming members were in and out of
the headlines for arrests on kidnapping and assault and battery charges, the
IRS gave this hate group status as a tax-exempt organization.
   CAN's involvement with violent and illegal deprogrammings has continued
unabated into the present.

* Working for the IRS

   Its ravored status can be traced to its willingness to target and attempt
to destroy groups the IRS is targcting. Cynthia Kisser boasted on radio that
the IRS has come to her for information on religions that the IRS was
investigating.
   While the full extent ot CAN's stool pigeon status for the IRS is not known,
documentation exists of at least one IRS request for information to help it in
its attacks on targeted religions.
   These abuses have moved several members of Congress to write to the IRS,
questioning why CAN is allowed to enjoy tax-tree dollars to operate as a
clearinghouse for deprogramming.
   In one recent letter, a congressman specifically asked the IRS to respond
to the charges that CAN "is in violation of its tax-exempt status because it
is still practicing deprogramming activities against other religious
organizations" and "the IRS has condoned this activity through . . . its
refusal to deny them tax exemption, though it is clearly improper."
   CAN's tactics are reminiscent ot those of the Nazis during World War II.
Its leaders justify their atrocities and violations of the Constitution with
the same type of propaganda employed by the Nazis.
   So why would the IRS give tax exemption to a hate group that is so
obviously violating the First Amendment to the Constitution? Is this an
indication that Adolf Hitler and his Holocaust hit men would have enjoyed tax
exemption were they around today? IRS officials have no excuse unless they
didn't know. Well, they do now and just as the Holocaust collaborators who
tried to escape responsibility at Nuremberg were hung, so should the IRS be
held accountahle. It is time the IRS stopped playing God. Many before, far
more intelligent than the current batch of IRS religion haters, have tried -
and the result has always been the same.
The IRS should learn from the past and cease being the self-appointed arbiters
of religion which our forefathers recognized as government tyranny.

* CAN Faith-breaking Decried

   CAN has attempted to establish itself as a clearinghouse for other groups
and organizations involved in deprogramming. Tantamount to making itself
little more than a school for international terrorism, CAN has conducted
"joint education programs" for anti-religion groups in Spain, Germany, and the
United Kingdom.
Members of the group have been actively involved in numerous deprogramming
attempts outside the United States.
   Deprogrammers in Europe, such as Martin Faiers, have run into stiff
opposition; Faiers was sent to jail in Switzerland after a violent
deprogramming attempt.

   CAN's deceptive, illegal prac- tices, hate crimes and rabid anti- religious
campaigns have been decried by religious leaders across the country.
   "Forcible deprogramming is the most serious stain on religious liberty
facing this country in the latter half of the 20th century," said the Rev.
Dean M. Kelley, counselor on religious liberty for the National Council of
Churches.
   Dr. Leo Champion, pasitor of the Missionary Baptist Church in Milwaukee,
has described CAN's activities as "illegal and immoral. It's that out law
enforcement agencies put a stop to this."
   One of the most outspoken critics of CAN has been Dr. George Robertson,
executive vice-president of Friends of Freedom, an organization formed in 1987
after clergy of various denominations began expressing a growing concern about
CAN's activities, especially the group's increasing number of assaults against
Christian faiths.
   Describing Richard Ross as CAN's "number one deprogrammer," Robertson added
that Ross "is one of three major deprogrammers in the country who specializes
in attacking members of Christian faiths. That is despicable. No one has the
right to try to forcefully deprogram anyone from his or her chosen faith.''
   Noting that Ross is facing possible charges in connection with the Seattle
abduction of Jason Scott, Robertson said, "We are going to see him put in jail."
------------------------------------------------
(This file was found elsewhere on the Internet and uploaded to the
Radio Free Michigan site by the archive maintainer.


Reply
Recommend  Message 21 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCommunity_Moderator Sent: 5/13/2006 8:00 PM
<NOSCRIPT> </NOSCRIPT>

"So Many Evil Things": Anti-Cult Terrorism via the Internet

by Massimo Introvigne.
A paper presented at the annual conference of the Association for Sociology of Religion (ASR), Chicago, 5 August 1999. Preliminary version. © Massimo Introvigne 1999. Do not cite or reproduce without the written consent of the author.

 

Following the mass suicide of Heaven’s Gate in March 1997, many commentaries reported on the movement’s active propaganda via the Internet, and expressed the fear that naive Internet passers-by might easily be recruited into suicidal cults through well-crafted Web sites. Recent scholarship suggests that, while not unheard of (Kellner 1996; O'Leary 1996), Internet conversions to new religious movements are rare, and do not contribute significantly to their growth (Dawson and Hennebry 1999; Mayer 1999). On the other hand, it has also been suggested that "the so-called ‘anti-cult’ groups [are] the main beneficiaries of the development of the Internet at this point" (Mayer 1999). This paper concentrates on the most aggressive Internet anti-cultists, and their attempts to systematically disrupt their targets through Internet activities. Firstly, I will review some well-known examples of social scientific theories on how cyberspace is constructed. Secondly, drawing from literature on information warfare and terrorism, I will explore Internet warfare and Internet terrorism as socially constructed concepts. Thirdly, I will comment on the background and development of an extreme anti-cult fringe, particularly in Europe, and its differences (as well as its relationships) with the mainline anti-cult community. Fourthly, some examples will be given of how this fringe is particularly (if not exclusively) active through the Internet, and its problems in obtaining offline results from its online activism. Finally, I will try to apply existing scholarship surrounding the Internet, and violence in general, to these activities and their effects on both new religious movements and those who stand in opposition to them.

 
Click below for the rest of the article:

Reply
Recommend  Message 22 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCommunity_Moderator Sent: 5/13/2006 8:08 PM
It is becoming more and more clear as we invetigate the criminal activities of these "cult deprogammers" that not only are these people highly violent and unstable with criminal records but they show unmistakable signs of being rabidly anti-religious. We will show later that their criteria of judgment are bogus and that what they are actually doing is using the real cults as a stringboard for victimising and persecuting all Bible-believing Christians. Since they refuse to tell us who they are or what they believe in, we must inevitably draw our own conclusions based on the evidence of their criminal past. Whilst some may just be financial opportunists, others clearly have a communist or satanistic agenda or something akin to it.
 
How foolish we were to even believe that they might be decent but misguided people. The truth will out and we shall see these people for what they are. More information coming anon.

Reply
Recommend  Message 23 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCommunity_Moderator Sent: 5/13/2006 8:15 PM

Reply
Recommend  Message 24 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCommunity_Moderator Sent: 5/13/2006 8:23 PM
CESNUR - center for studies on new religions
> </SCRIPT> language=javascript1.2> </SCRIPT> > </SCRIPT> <NOSCRIPT> </NOSCRIPT>

Watching for Violence

A Comparative Analysis of the Roles of Five Types of Cult-Watching Groups

Eileen Barker (London School of Economics)
A paper presented at The 2001 Conference in London. Preliminary draft, not to be quoted without permission
[Final version to be published by David G. Bromley in Cults and Violence (forthcoming).]

Cults and violence are commonly bound inextricably together in the public mind. There have, after all, been some horrifying testimonies to their connection in the recent past: the murders and mass suicide of Jim Jones’ Peoples Temple, and the Solar Temple; the terrifying siege at Waco which ended with the fire that killed the children trapped in the compound along with David Koresh and his followers; and, perhaps most ominous of all, the poisoning of innocent travelers on the Tokyo underground by members of Aum Shinrikyö.

For the rest of the article, see:

http://www.cesnur.org/2001/london2001/barker.htm

Article's conclusion:

"We have learned that if we wish to increase our understanding of "the cult scene" sufficiently to reduce the prospect of future violence, cult watching is necessary. We have also learned that watching the cult-watchers is necessary."


Reply
Recommend  Message 25 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCommunity_Moderator Sent: 5/13/2006 8:42 PM

TheDoor Interview with Rick Ross

by Pete Evans
Issue #196, November/December 2004

Rick Ross lives and works in the New York City area and makes himself available to the national media on a regular basis. As head of the nonprofit The Rick A. Ross Institute for the Study of Destructive Cults, Controversial Groups and Movements, Rick and his associates have assisted thousands of families. He's been interviewed in most major U.S. newspapers and magazines and his work has been featured on a host of television shows. The nature of his work involves some of the hardest-hitting headlines from groups you might recognize but know little about. He is also absolutely fearless.

THE DOOR MAGAZINE: How long have you been working with cults?
RICK ROSS: I've been dealing with controversial groups, some that are called cults, for about 20 years. I began my work in 1982. I first worked for the Jewish community in the 1980s and then I became a private consultant working all over the United States. I worked internationally in Great Britain, Israel, Canada, and so on.
DOOR: Were you doing what used to be called de-programming?
ROSS: Part of my work now continues to be what was once called "cult de-programming" or what I would now call "cult intervention" work. It is done on a voluntary basis — which means that person I'm working with has agreed with their family to meet with me and discuss things with me, though I very often come in as a surprise. The group would probably not allow the person to meet with me. So initially, when I sit down, it's kind of a surprise and then they agree to continue to talk and then their family typically persuades them. Intervention is a large part of my work, but I also lecture at colleges and universities across the United States.
      I also act as a paid professional consultant for the media doing analysis work on film projects. I was once hired by Miramax/Disney to consult on the film Holy Smoke featuring Harvey Keitel as a cult de-programmer. I was his technical consultant. I'm now working on a project for an independent film company based on one of Frank Peretti's books.
DOOR: You've also testified as an expert witness in court cases.
ROSS: I'm qualified and accepted as an expert witness in seven states. Most recently I was involved in a wrongful death lawsuit—the largest settlement ever paid by Jehovah's Witnesses in its history, $1.5 million. You can see the case—Coughlin vs. Jehovah's Witnesses —on my website.
DOOR: What got you started?
ROSS: It involved my grandmother. She was a resident of a Jewish nursing home in Phoenix and the staff had been infiltrated by people involved with a controversial group called the Jewish Voice Broadcast, which was founded by an Assembly of God Minister by the name of Lewis Kaplan. It was styled after Jews for Jesus and essentially was a similar organization that targeted Jews for conversion to Pentecostalism.
DOOR: Were you successful in getting your grandmother out?
ROSS: It wasn't a question of getting her out. Group members who wanted to convert nursing home residents had infiltrated the home. My grandmother had been confronted by a nurse's aide who had been affiliated with this organization and she was very upset one day when I came to visit her. My objection was not that they did not have a right to share their faith with other people including residents of the nursing home, it was that they were not requested to be there. They were operating covertly and there should be some kind of understanding ethically that if residents of the nursing home wanted people to come in and witness to them and share their faith with them, it should be done on request. It should not be done covertly by placing people with jobs in the nursing home and operating that way.
DOOR: Where did your objections lead?
ROSS: That situation led to me working with the nursing home director and that led to a series of appointments to committees in Arizona and then national committees regarding cults and missionaries. The focus of my work regarding missionaries was specifically groups that targeted the Jewish community. I spent a period of time working for Jewish Family and Children Service in Phoenix, the Bureau of Jewish Education, The Union of American Hebrew Congregations—commonly called the Reform Movement of Judaism. Subsequently, I became a private consultant towards the end of 1986.
DOOR: How does your faith tie in with your work?
ROSS: It really doesn't because my approach to intervention work is the issue of the behavior of the group. In other words, the group may be hurting people through coercive persuasion, through undue influence, or manipulating them and exploiting them and this harm may be physical. They may, for example, deny medical care for members. That may be part of their group's doctrines. There could be mistreatment of children. There could be sexual abuse or whatever. My focus is the behavior of the group and not the beliefs. So, when families bring me in, it's not a theological issue but it's "is this group harming my son or my daughter or my spouse or parent by the way they operate?"
      For example, I was called in on a case with Robert Tilton and this involved a woman who was a wife and mother who was giving large amounts of money to the Tilton ministry out of her family's business and her husband found out. He was very concerned that Tilton and his ministry were dominating his wife's life. It was causing a rift in their family and he was very concerned. In fact, she had moved out of the house when I came to work with her. The end result was that she left Tilton's orbit and returned to her family. She realized that she had essentially been taken in by Tilton and was under his undue influence. His people had told her that her husband's opposition could be seen as Satanic.
DOOR: What are some of the more controversial groups operating today?
ROSS: The groups I've received the most complaints about on a monthly basis are probably Landmark Education, which is a seminar program that presents something called The Forum. Also, the word-faith churches that are basically growing, like Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, the name-it-claim-it crowd, which would include Benny Hinn.
DOOR: Blab-it-grab-it?
ROSS: Scientology is another. Yoga groups run by a particular guru or swami. Not yoga groups for exercise, but ones that seem to have a hidden agenda.
DOOR: How would you define a cult?
ROSS: Any group of people that are intensely devoted to a person, place or thing would be called a cult or a cult following. The question really is what really defines a disruptive cult. There are many groups that could be called cults, such as the Amish, or Elvis fans, or Trekkies or groups that are benign that actually may be beneficial to the people involved. Trekkie fans have a good time at conventions. Elvis fans have a certain camaraderie. The Amish are a peaceful, productive society.
      When most people use the term "cult," they mean a destructive cult. A destructive cult first can be defined as a group that has an absolute totalitarian leader and is personality driven. Regardless of whatever they quote—whether it's the Bible, Freud, or Marx—what they really are about is the leader. They are defined by that leader who is the focus of power in the group and who dictates virtually anything and everything without any meaningful boundaries.
      Second, you have an ongoing dynamic or process in the group that could be referred to as "thought reform," commonly called "brainwashing." People systematically are robbed of their ability to critically think or make independent choices. Ultimately, they essentially become dependent upon the leader to make value judgements and do their thinking for them, or through the leader's delegated counterparts so they no longer are really thinking for themselves.
      The third is that the group is destructive. They hurt people. This could be very easily seen by child abuse, sexual abuse, physical abuse, labor exploitation, psychological and emotional trauma or abuse. There are many ways this can be seen but essentially you begin to see a pattern of destructive behavior and abuse that occurs through the group. Not all destructive cults are the same. With some groups, certain of these three criteria are expressed more strongly than in others.
DOOR: Do you see any distinctive patterns with race or educational background?
ROSS: No. What I see are people from all walks of life. All socio-economic levels, all educational levels. David Koresh's second in command, Wayne Martin, was a Harvard law school graduate. Steve Schneider, his third in command, was a seminarian. I've also heard a lot about the Nuwaubians, who have made a lot of news lately.
DOOR: Nuwaubians? Any relation to the Wauhobs of Iowa?
ROSS: The Nuwaubians are a group composed of African Americans near Atlanta under Yahweh Ben Yahweh, a leader who did some time in prison regarding murder conspiracies in Florida. Then there are the white supremacist groups composed solely of white Anglo Saxon Americans, such as the Aryan Nations led by Richard Butler. And then there are groups in the United States like Suma Ching High, which is Vietnamese. Or Falun Gong, which has gotten a lot of publicity lately, and is led by Lehung Ghi from mainland China with many followers in the United States, but which focuses on the Chinese community.
DOOR: Any future Heaven's Gate or Jim Jones type groups out there?
ROSS: There are two groups I'm deeply concerned about. The first is the House of Yahweh in Texas, led by Yisrael Hawkins, which is part of the Yahweh-ist movement. Hawkins basically took some of the beliefs of the Worldwide Church of God and melded them together with the beliefs of the Yahweh-ist movement and various Jewish holidays and customs and created his own unique church. Most of the members of his compound have taken his name and they're all called Hawkins.
DOOR: Dang. Texas again. Are they armed?
ROSS: There have been rumors that there's an arms stockpile that's been hidden by the group. There have been very serious complaints about the group. They have a very troubled history. That's a group I'm concerned about. They have a compound. Groups with compounds tend to be more intense, more controlled, more problematic.
      The other group that I'm concerned about is the Endeavor Academy in Wisconsin in an area known as the Wisconsin Dells. This group is led by a man named Chuck Anderson, whom the members call "the master teacher." He works from a book called The Course in Miracles but he has his own peculiar idiosyncratic interpretation of that book. It is not consistent with what most of the ACIM people would subscribe to. In fact, I don't get many complaints about that book at all, even though it's controversial. The issue is the way Anderson runs that group. The behavior of that group has been very troubled over the years. In fact, 48 Hours did an exposé about them some years back. I participated in that. Anderson teaches the people to disconnect from the world around them. He basically defines reality for them in much the same way that Marshall Applewhite did for his followers in Heaven's Gate. It seems like the group is getting more and more frantic. The videos produced by Anderson are far more disturbing and I'm concerned about that group.
DOOR: OK, are they armed?
ROSS: They're not armed. But Anderson talks about his students being attached to him in a way similar to what Applewhite did when he said his "class," as he referred to Heaven's Gate, was attached to him. He says that through him they could reach the level above human and there's verbiage very similar to that within the Endeavor Academy and its teachings. That causes me great concern because Chuck Anderson is getting old. I think he's in his late seventies. This was a problem with Heaven's Gate. I believe Marshall Applewhite thought he was dying—though he wasn't. He was a deeply disturbed man—as many cult leaders have proven to be over the years. When he felt he was dying, he felt his students needed to come with him. That precipitated the mass suicide at Heaven's Gate.
DOOR: Are any of the word-faith groups in a similar position?
ROSS: I receive many complaints about Word of Faith groups from families and former members about families being broken up, divorces, and people just feeling very broken. They've been told their disease, their financial situation, whatever, could be resolved by their faith commitment. When it wasn't, they felt they had somehow betrayed God. Their faith was not true. There was something wrong with them spiritually or ethically and they felt very isolated, very broken, very lost. Then, of course, families have broken up over this because one member of the family has becomes involved and the rest of the family is very concerned.
      For example, one case I recently dealt with, someone stopped taking medication for a chronic illness and as a result they had a very bad attack. That could really harm a person when you give up medication over a word of faith group.
DOOR: What is the most appealing thing about these groups? Is it community?
ROSS: So often, what people don't understand about groups that have been called cults is that what people think they are getting involved in is not what they are getting involved in. There's this element of bait and switch. Very often there is deception in the recruitment process. People believe they're entering into a group that is political, that is philosophical, or that is a charity that helps others. They enter for a variety of reasons: to improve their study—Scientology has a reading program called "Applied Scholastics" where people might become involved because they want to read better. Rev. Moon, the leader of the Unification Church, has had historically hundreds of front organizations where people might enter because they are interested in abstinence, interested in honoring their parents, or ballet. Oftentimes groups can be misleading in the way they bring people to the group.
      Having said that, once people become involved, it is a process of increments that I would liken to boiling a frog in a pot on a gas stove—increasing the temperature gradually so the frog won't jump out. The changes that occur with people are very often a long process or fairly long process, step by step, spoonful by spoonful. People are not allowed to make an informed decision about the totality of what the group wants them to believe or accept or do from the very beginning.
      If I wanted to become a Jesuit or to join the Marine Corps, I would know before I joined what the expectations of the group were. I would have a good idea of the strictness that would be a part of my life and how my life would be structured. In many cases, if the people that I work with knew in the beginning what they later came to find out, they never would have joined in the first place. For example, I just finished a case involving a multi-level marketing scheme. They painted a very rosy picture as a business opportunity to supplement existing income. It wasn't like that. Certainly people that become involved in tight-knit groups find themselves in the midst of a community where they have a sense of belonging, a sense of acceptance. In destructive cults, the friendships they experience and the acceptance is highly conditional. There is no legitimate reason to leave. Those who leave become marked or estranged from the group. People are no longer friendly with them.
DOOR: Ostracized?
ROSS: They're called losers, backsliders, reprobates. They're rebellious against God—however the group terms it. The bottom line is the friendships they feel they've made and the sense of acceptance they feel the group offers is really not unconditional and instead quite the opposite. Most people could leave a church or a club or an organization and still have friends in that group and still communicate and still have a sense of history with that people and a continuing relationship—but that is most often not the case with the groups I deal with.
      So even though people have this feeling about community and acceptance that, in and of itself, is often deceptive. It is not quite the way it seems. There is a certain sense of security and comfort that comes from the certainty that many of these groups offer. They have all the answers. There are no holy mysteries. There are no loose ends. People feel that the organization can answer every issue in their life. Of course, most of us know there is no such perfect organization with all the answers. It can be very reassuring when people are told, "Yes, you have found that one organization that has all the answers" and "Our leaders can answer all your questions" and "You are on the cutting edge of some movement—you're on the side of the angels and those on the outside are clearly not." With the groups I deal with, it is very extreme, very black and white. There are no shades of gray. One of their attractive features is that there is little or no ambiguity.
DOOR: Do you really enjoy what you're doing?
ROSS: I really feel that my work is satisfying to me personally. I feel good about my work. I expect to continue as long as I can.
DOOR: Do you still personally do every de-programming that comes along?
ROSS: I do intervention work myself. Where I have staff—if you could call it staff—is really people who I sub out to. I have a technical designer and advisor for the web site. I have a webmaster. I have people that do a lot of work for the Ross Institute database—a very large database that contains thousands of documents and articles. There are anywhere from five to seven thousand individual unique users coming to the web site each day and downloading information from it. It's one of the most visible databases of its kind on the world wide web.
DOOR: Has the internet made your work easier?
ROSS: With the Internet, the process of educating people is far easier. Twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week, they can access a wealth of data. Also, on the Ross Institute database there is a huge collection of links to other web sites divided up into categories, groups, topics, etc. What I think is so wonderful is now we can educate the public. People can find out about these groups in their bedrooms. If they or a family member is being recruited, they can go on the internet and find out about them. This has made education more viable. That's all it boils down to. These groups will then live with their history on the internet and people can access it and make informed decisions about being involved.
DOOR: How can people get to your website?
ROSS: The Ross Institute website is www.rickross.com.

http://www.thedoormagazine.com/archives/rickross.html


Reply
Recommend (1 recommendation so far)  Message 26 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCommunity_Moderator Sent: 5/13/2006 9:52 PM


The Cornerstone of Liberty

American Flag & Liberty Bell Investigating threats to religious freedom and helping to restore liberty

 F
reedom of religion has appropriately been called the most fundamental and most expansive freedom—encompassing personal belief, thought, expression and association. Religious freedom has also been that principle more vigorously disputed, defended and ultimately cherished than any other in history.

      Although minority religions today may not have to fight to the death for their religious freedoms as in previous times, lesser battles and skirmishes are still commonplace. The best democracy is still no guarantee against intolerance and bigotry, and eternal vigilance is an expression that will never become obsolete.

      Freedom has repeatedly examined incidents and issues of religious liberty and published its findings. The coverage has helped both public and private sectors recognize and heed warning signs of intolerance and its perpetrators, and contributed to efforts to preserve religious freedom for future generations.

Lifting the Veil of Hypocrisy

From the early 1970s, Freedom consistently reported on abuses and crimes practiced in the name of “deprogramming”-physical and mental assaults to break an individual's religious beliefs, for profit. The practice frequently involves assault, kidnapping and sometimes rape.

      Freedom explored the nexus of the deprogramming movement, the Cult Awareness Network (“CAN”), and its founders, leaders, supporters and members.

      Pulling on the threads of hypocrisy throughout CAN's front as an "educational" institution, Freedom found and exposed evidence of the true nature of the network. CAN preyed on the gullible, violated the civil rights of the innocent, and was linked to violence and even deaths nationwide.

      Freedom's coverage, including special editions of the magazine and a white paper on the violence and crime incited by the network, helped bring vital facts to the attention of those in the fields of law and justice, as well as civil rights and religious leaders, media, and the public at large.

      A past national president of CAN, Michael Rokos, typified the hypocrisy and deception that characterized CAN. After assuming office in 1989, Rokos, also a youth counselor and volunteer chaplain to the Maryland State Police, launched a savage propaganda campaign against a variety of religions. Freedom questioned why such a man would attack religions that try to uphold high moral standards. Through public records review and interviews, Freedom exposed evidence that Rokos had been arrested for soliciting lewd conduct from an undercover police officer, which he had concealed and repeatedly denied. But the truth was clear and Rokos resigned in disgrace as police chaplain and president of CAN.


Freedom Magazine specials on CAN
Freedom’s thorough coverage of the unlawful deprogramming industry and its nexus, the former Cult Awareness Network, included two special reports in the mid-1990s.

Crime and Prejudice

      The duplicity of CAN’s president was only the tip of the iceberg. Through its investigations, Freedom found criminality of nearly epidemic proportions amongst members of the Cult Awareness Network and made these facts known to the officials, news media and the public CAN pretended to serve. Virtually a lone voice in protesting and publishing the sordid facts, Freedom helped to bring a number of these individuals to justice.

      In some cases, slow recognition and action by authorities against those in CAN who practiced such deception led to tragic consequences. There was Rick Ross, a deprogrammer highly recommended and praised by CAN, who constructed his own facade of “cult expert” for officials and media. In fact, Ross specialized in deprogrammings of Christians. His vitriolic and blatant fabrications about various religions helped fuel a climate of suspicion and fear against many minority religious groups about whom he knew nothing.

      A Freedom investigation revealed that Ross had a rap sheet with at least three arrests and a felony conviction for conspiracy to commit grand theft. A psychological profile in those criminal records concluded he had little or no concept of the consequences of his actions to others or to society.

      The truth about Ross did not become widely recognized soon enough to prevent the United States Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) from “consulting” him during the days of the stand-off with the Branch Davidians in Waco, Texas. Ross promoted the notion that the Davidians would probably not come out willingly and that measures would have to be taken to force them out. That advice contributed to an American tragedy.

      Freedom also examined the broader aspect of CAN’s influence on events at Waco which led, ultimately, to more than 80 men, women and children losing their lives. The unequivocal evidence helped lead such noted scholars as Professor Nancy T. Ammerman, then on a special project at Princeton University, to conclude in a September 1993 report to the Justice and Treasury Departments that “The Network [CAN] and Mr. Ross have a direct ideological (and financial) interest in arousing suspicion and antagonism against what they call ‘cults’”.

Those involved in deprogramming
Freedom investigated the duplicity which permeated the deprogramming network starting with founder and three-time convict Ted Patrick, and deprogramming architect Louis Jolyon “Jolly” West. By 1996, the network disbanded following arrests of more than a dozen deprogrammers and a $4.85 million judgement against CAN and several deprogrammers for one failed kidnapping.

      After the tragic—and unnecessary—deaths of the Branch Davidians, ATF and FBI officials involved were sharply censured for giving credence to CAN, and for believing them. Government took a step back, Congress held hearings, and safeguards were put in place to ensure that in any similar circumstances in the future, actual experts on religion will be consulted.

      In the wake of Freedom’s investigatory exposes into CAN, between the late 1980s and early 1990s more than a dozen of the United States’ top deprogrammers—including CAN’s chief of security—were arrested and many convicted.

      By 1996, the Cult Awareness Network and several of its deprogrammers—including Rick Ross—owed $4.8 million in compensatory and punitive damages, awarded by a Washington State jury to a young Christian man who was subjected to a violent deprogramming attempt by Ross and two associates.

      Federal Court Judge John Coughenour pointed out that each of the defendants seemed “incapab[le] of appreciating the maliciousness of their conduct....”

      When CAN and Ross declared bankruptcy and appealed in an attempt to circumvent the punishment, the 9th Circuit Federal Appeals Court handed down a landmark decision upholding the verdict in all respects.

Deprogramming in action

      The Court of Appeal found that: “In summary, there is sufficient evidence...to establish that ...CAN functioned through its contact people; that CAN members routinely referred people to deprogrammers; and that CAN was aware of Ross and the fact that he conducted involuntary deprogrammings.... [T]he evidence establishes that CAN members routinely referred callers to deprogrammers, including involuntary deprogrammers.”

      Such was the new climate of intolerance for religious bigotry, which Freedom helped to establish, that the Cult Awareness Network folded up and no longer serves as a threat to religious liberty. Today, a reconstituted CAN actively and constructively applies the group’s original mandate to “educate the general public regarding religious rights, freedoms and responsibilities” and has a trail of happy-ending stories to its credit—reunited families, heightened trust and respect, and a healthy tolerance for religious diversity.

      Freedom editions in other lands, from the United Kingdom to Australia, have likewise exposed how deprogramming breaks up families and destroys lives, and have been effective in restraining the destructive practice.

      Freedom has also probed beyond CAN’s deprogrammers and discovered the nature and motives of those whose false theories of religious “brainwashing” helped motivate the deprogramming movement and justify its criminal assaults.

      Chief among the deprogramming network’s mentors has been Dr. Louis Jolyon West, who heavily advocates drugging, and wrote that “the drug-free state of mind” is an “antiquated position.” West has extensively experimented with the use of powerful hallucinogenic drugs, including a lethal test on an elephant with a dose of LSD 1,500 times that which would be needed to send a human on a full-scale trip. In the 1990s West was dismissed from his lucrative position as the head of the University of California Los Angeles (UCLA) Neuropsychiatric Institute after evidence suggested misuse of government funds. Freedom also investigated West’s highly racist theories about crime [See “Equal Rights and Social Justice”]

      Freedom uncovered the motivations and practices of other CAN mentors and icons, with similar findings of prejudice, bigotry and hypocrisy.

The Cornerstone of Liberty continued...
 

http://30th.freedommag.org/page02.htm


Reply
Recommend  Message 27 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCommunity_Moderator Sent: 5/13/2006 9:54 PM

Church and State

      Freedom has also provided in-depth coverage of church and state and U.S. First Amendment issues over the years.

      In 1983, when police and state troopers swooped in on the 200-member Faith Baptist Church in Louisville, Nebraska, Freedom made known their plight. The authorities shut down the church’s school, padlocked the church and jailed its pastor on a charge of contempt. The pastor had only insisted on the right to teach his religion at the church’s own school, and to do so with teachers who were not certified by the state. Authorities allowed the church to be unlocked only for Sunday morning and Wednesday evening worship services. Other Christians who attempted to open the church for the Faith Baptist congregation were physically carried from the premises by police. The church was padlocked again—with state troopers left behind as guards. In response to a plea for legal recourse, the Nebraska Supreme Court upheld the state’s order for the school to remain closed.

      Freedom and other media condemned such intrusion by the state into religious affairs. The media coverage and the legal battles fought by the Baptists culminated in a change of the Nebraska law to allow church-run schools throughout the state to operate without government interference.

      Freedom provided a voice to other churches and clergy in the United States whose stories focused a spotlight on First Amendment violations.

      In the early 1980s, an alarming trend of civil lawsuits and court judgments against primarily Christian churches was sweeping the United States, led by California. The suits—innovative means to line the pockets of opportunists and their lawyers—were based on frivolous claims amounting to “clergy malpractice” and sought punitive damages awards of devastating magnitude.

      Freedom examined the litigation and litigators, making facts available to officials, judges and media, and adding substantial weight to the voices of reason protesting the trend. By 1989, legislation was passed in California making it virtually impossible for frivolous litigation demanding punitive damages to be filed against churches. The trend of litigation in California and the country was reversed.

      Freedom’s coverage of religious liberty issues also supported the passage of a national United States Resolution calling for a week to commemorate the country’s heritage and tradition of religious freedom. “Religious Freedom Week” was proclaimed in 1988, 1989 and 1990 by Presidential Proclamation. The Week has since been recognized in the official calendar of national events and is observed by a multitude of diverse religious groups each year.

Fire on the Cross

      In 1996, in an investigation of the burning of churches in the southern United States, Freedom uncovered evidence of disastrous negligence on the part of the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) in its handling of the arsons.

      Official probes of the fires dragged on for months, with tight-lipped federal investigators refusing in some cases to tell the victims anything. Some pastors and church elders were served with federal grand jury subpoenas and questioned with the stinging indication that they had possibly burned their own churches. Evidence of the nature and extent of insurance coverage made this a virtual impossibility, not to mention that in virtually all cases, the clergy and congregations were dedicatedly rebuilding their churches.

      In seeking to understand why the arms of justice were crossed, Freedom found and exposed damning evidence of prejudice among ATF members—including documented accounts of ATF agents’ involvement in white racist gatherings.

      Through the concerted pressure of media, religions, justice groups and others, by late 1996, investigations into the fire bombings were inching forward, prompting Dr. Arthur A. Fletcher, former chairman of the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, to tell Freedom: “This seems to be the darkest hour before the sunshine. The church [arsons] are going to cause religions to join forces. We can expect to see a giant step in terms of the religious community coming together to reduce discrimination to insignificance.”

      So long as vigilance is continually exercised, it is likely that this will come to pass, as it has progressively throughout history—strengthening the First Amendment and making America safer for religious minorities.

Religious Freedom Internationally

      In its international editions, Freedom has also championed causes for religious freedom abroad. The focus of Freedom’s coverage has been to investigate and inform readers of underlying motives for discrimination and persecution—with the view that facts and education are the best weapon against bigotry.

      Particularly in Europe, Freedom has sought to assist members of government, religions, media and the public to exercise principles of religious equality. In many respects, European nations are still grappling with the concept. In a democracy, any religion, in theory, can attain equal standing with other religions—hence equal treatment from the state—by achieving religious recognition from the government. In most European countries, however, the procedures for recognition heavily favor those religions which conform to the doctrines and structure of the traditional churches—which in many cases are also the state churches. In other words, religious equality means conformity with the established churches, and others need not apply.

      Freedom has examined the disparate treatment of religions in countries where the closeness of church and state has suffocated diversity of religious expression. Comprehensive coverage was given to the issue of bias in the Danish system, where state recognition of newer religions was being adjudicated by the state (Lutheran) church. Daily news media reported on Freedom’s stories, furthering public discussion of the issue. When a Hindu congregation was denied recognition, Freedom’s voice was heard contesting the approval process. In 1997, the Danish government changed their procedure, and today, minority religions seeking recognition are reviewed by an independent panel of religious experts.

      In similar circumstances, Freedom examined a debate in the United Kingdom over the denial of religious recognition to the Pagans—a religion older than Britain itself—and has helped to bring about more contemporary views on matters of religious equality.

Religious Freedom and Human Rights

      Religious freedom adopts a more fundamental meaning when placed in the context of iniquities afforded minority religions in some European countries—treatment condemned by the European Court of Human Rights and by individuals and groups in the international human rights community.


Freedom Magazine covers, published by the Church of Scientology
Freedom provides in-depth coverage of religious freedom issues in its European editions.


      Oppression of the Jehovah’s Witnesses in Greece, for example, led to two decisions by the European Court which denounced the Greek government’s blatant violations of international human rights treaties. Freedom explored the motivations for the Greek persecution of Jehovah’s Witnesses and other groups, and pried into the work of a self-proclaimed “sect expert” who led a propaganda drive against various minority religions in the country. Freedom’s report documented the sect expert’s ignoble past with the Greek fascist junta of the 1970s—including his involvement in torturing Jehovah’s Witness conscientious objectors.

      Freedom has also examined the persecution of religious minorities in its even more insidious forms, especially in countries where God-negating dogma has ruled for the greater part of recent history. In this regard, the influence of psychiatry in the 20th century has left indelible marks on religious freedom. This is perhaps best illustrated in Russia, where Freedom reported on adherents of minority religions occupying the beds of psychiatric asylums that were believed to have held only political dissidents.

      In countries with a more enlightened history vis-à-vis religion, insecurity yet exists over the growth—sometimes very rapid—of minority and newer religious groups. In recent years, this insecurity has been met by parliamentary “commissions” which inquire into the beliefs and practices of such groups and frequently recommend restrictions be placed on them. Further, the sources from whom these commissions draw their reports are often the same ill-intentioned individuals whose unfounded propaganda about minority religions incited the insecurity in the first place.

      Freedom has been an outspoken voice in condemning the establishment and outcomes of such inquiry commissions. Since a federal “observatory on sects” was established in France in 1996 as a result of one such parliamentary inquiry, Freedom’s coverage has been instrumental in fostering understanding that the parliamentary commission report which led to the observatory was based on disinformation. Groups targeted in the report not only pose no danger to society, but include the religion of the U.S. President—Baptist—and Catholic organizations whose founders were recently canonized by the Pope.

      Other European editions of Freedom have similarly brought the facts behind modern-day religious inquisitions to the attention of the public. Freedom has exposed unlawful activity by “sect experts” and anti-sect groups which, in some countries, are an arm of the government or the state church. When a member of a peripheral Catholic group in Spain was kidnapped, forced into a psychiatric hospital and force-fed psychiatric drugs because of his religious affiliation, Freedom investigated the persecutors—members of the “anti-sect” group Pro Juventud, which was funded by the Spanish government. After Freedom’s coverage, government funding of the group was abruptly cut.

      In an overview of religion in Europe, however, no country better defines a struggle with democratic concepts of religious freedom than Germany. In light of their past violations of human rights and their current ascent to leadership in European and world affairs, Germany’s standing in the religious freedom arena is of no minor importance.

      Dr. Stephen Feinstein of the University of Wisconsin articulated the problem when he wrote, in relation to the modern-day disposition of human rights in Germany, “What all of this suggests is that modern Germany, while professing to be a democratic republic with a clean human rights record, has, in fact, one of great contradiction. Nowhere is this more evident than in cases involving many newer religions.”

      Freedom has repeatedly documented, in its U.S. and international editions, actions of certain German officials that have squarely placed Germany in non-compliance with European and international conventions on human rights. In-depth coverage of religious discrimination, focusing on the treatment of Scientologists, has helped to educate government, media, human rights leaders and the public on the issue. Freedom has likewise provided a forum for the cause of religious minorities in Germany who are experiencing discrimination and who have been denied a means of speaking out.

      Freedom has published boldly on the state of religious freedom in Germany and has never minced words on the issues. As nationally syndicated columnist Alexander Cockburn wrote in The Los Angeles Times following Freedom’s publication of a 1997 edition featuring human rights abuses in Germany: “[T]he Scientologists have just put out an issue of their publication, Freedom, revealing criminal conspiracies—misuse of money, etc., etc.—inside the two major German political parties. The special issue is being put out in a run of 500,000 in English and German.” Cockburn concluded of Freedom and Scientologists: “They don’t give up.”

      As part of its in-depth coverage of this issue, in 1995 Freedom published The Rise of Hatred & Violence in Germany, a documented account of the treatment of religious minorities in Germany today. Freedom in particular raised a strong voice against the rise of right-wing extremist activity and propaganda against minorities, and warned leaders to heed the signs of a repetition of Germany’s darker chapters in history. While it was perhaps unpopular at first to speak out on the topic, there is little chance now of the message being reviled or ignored. The results of a 1998 state election in former East Germany, demonstrating the rise and power of right-wing extremist politics, shocked even Germany’s leaders and media.

      Freedom has continued to be at the forefront of enlightening governments, media and the public on the status of human rights and religious freedom in Germany. Annual human rights reports by the United Nations and the U.S. Department of State censuring the German government’s human rights record; reports by independent human rights watchdog groups; a fact-finding trip by the United Nations Special Rapporteur on Human Rights; and hearings by the Office for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) held in Fall 1997 in Washington, D.C. in which Scientologists and Christians testified, have resulted in part from Freedom’s efforts.

      Freedom will continue to perform its role in documenting and publishing the truth about treatment of religious minorities and human rights in Germany and other European countries. Though Freedom has often moved against the grain of certain government and private interests, the continued wide and international public response has proven unequivocally that Freedom is far from alone in its views on religious liberty.

http://30th.freedommag.org/page03.htm



Reply
Recommend  Message 34 of 48 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCommunity_Moderator Sent: 5/14/2006 2:10 AM

In his account to the Department of Justice, Ross gives very different examples of advice he gave to the FBI agents.

Ammerman claims that the FBI interview transcripts on the Waco tragedy include the note that "[Ross] has a personal hatred for all religious cults" and would aid law enforcement in an attempt to "destroy a cult". Ross denies this emphatically.

Carol Moore, author of "The Massacre Of The Branch Davidians—A Study Of Government Violations Of Rights, Excessive Force And Cover Up" 1994 published by Gun Owners of America[2], writes:

Ross told the Houston Chronicle that Koresh is "your stock cult leader. They're all the same. Meet one and you've met them all. They're deeply disturbed, have a borderline personality and lack any type of conscience. No one willingly enters into a relationship like this. So you're talking about deception and manipulation (by the leader), people being coached in ever so slight increments, pulled in deeper and deeper without knowing where it's going or seeing the total picture.

Kimberly Post, a sociology student working on a class assignment for Professor Jeffrey K. Hadden, wrote in 1997:

Relying heavily on reports from a few former members of the Branch Davidians, Marc Breault (a former member and angry apostate) and Rick Ross (a deprogrammer and anti-cultist), Aguilera's affidavit delved into topics not under the jurisdiction of the BATF or part of the initial investigation into firearms violations, such as allegations of child abuse. His affidavit and the assumptions put forth by Breault and Ross decisively influenced the investigation and opinion of Koresh and his followers by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Attorney General Janet Reno, and President Clinton. [3]

Ross recounted his role regarding the Waco Davidian standoff in a letter to Attorney General Janet Reno [4] and responded to critics such as Ammerman in a statement published by the Washington Post. [5]

Catherine Wessinger, Professor of the history of religions and women's studies at the Loyola University in New Orleans, characterizes Ross as a "spurious self-styled expert[s]" in her paper The Branch Davidians and the Waco Media, 1993-2003 [6], in which she criticized that Ross was often cited by the local media. Rick Ross describes her paper on his site as follows:

This rather long-winded "scholarly" review regarding media coverage of the Waco Davidian Standoff was written by cult apologist Catherine Wessinger. [...]. Ms. Wessinger snipes about "spurious self-styled experts" [...] getting too much media attention. The professor then stuffs her footnotes with what looks like a Scientologist's historical guide concerning my past. Could it be that she is angry that the press doesn't quote her more? [7]

Criticism

Ross is criticized for his lack of academic credentials, for the two felony crimes in his twenties previously mentioned, and for his former deprogramming activities, the tort of unlawful imprisonment. A great part of the criticism originates from those associated with new religious movements, controversial groups or organizations which are listed in his website, such as the Church of Scientology and the Kabbalah Centre.

Other critics note that he has had conflicts with other anti-cult figures such as Steven Hassan and Anton Hein [8]. He is a frequent poster on Internet newsgroups as well.

Scientology

The Church of Scientology, known for no-holds-barred actions against its critics, maintains a 17-page critique about him supplemented by a 196-page document at "Religious Freedom Watch" consisting of court transcripts, jury verdict forms, news articles, psychiatric records, the bankruptcy filing petition and more [9].

Jeffrey K. Hadden

Professor Jeffrey K. Hadden (deceased) at the University of Virginia wrote that "Rick Ross is a highly visible entrepreneur who has carved out quite a niche for himself as a self-proclaimed expert and counselor to families desperate to retrieve family members from new religions. His past has been called into question by the Church of Scientology which has uncovered evidence of alleged mental instability and an attempted robbery conviction".[10] Hadden himself sought funding from some NRMs including the Unification Church, as revealed by a confidential memo he sent to fellow academics sympathetic to NRMs dated December 20, 1989 [11].

Shupe and Darnell

Anson D. Shupe played a controversial role in the Jason Scott lawsuit. Shupe was an expert witness for the plaintiff in the Jason Scott case. He testified against Ross and the Cult Awareness Network. Later working closely with Scientology lawyer Kendrick Moxon he co-authored a paper with Susan Darnell, [12] who "manages a credit union in Gary, Indiana and is a civil rights advocate journalist." [13]

In a paper written with Darnell he is critical about deprogrammers, defining them "[...] as vigilantes and mercenaries rather than as bonafide counselors or therapists". Specifically about Ross, he asserts that "even coercive deprogrammer Rick Ross was terming himself only an Expert Consultant and Intervention Specialist (an unique euphemism for exit counselor) on his late 1990s Internet Website." and that "[...] expert Rick Ross [was] still physically abducting unwilling adults belonging to unconventional religions and criminally restraining the latter according to the old deprogramming/mind control mythos."[14] The comment of Ross on the article is:

Long-time "cult apologist" Anson Shupe [...] broods about "deprogramming" and seems somewhat miffed that despite his professional effort subsidized by Scientology, my cult intervention work continues. He refers to the Jason Scott case, but of course ignores its final outcome. Shupe then supports his opinions largely with footnotes citing other "cult apologists," [...]. Both of these men have picked up substantial checks working for purported "cult" groups. [15]

Shupe and Darnell also assert that Ross engages in anti-Christian writings, referring to a letter to Priscilla Coates, a CAN activist, dated July 30, 1987, in which Ross complained about not getting deprogramming referrals from CAN and that "some parents are so cheap they prefer to let their kids 'bang the bible' than pay."[16] In another letter from Ross to Coates, dated April 28, 1988, Ross describes his strategy to get the media to promote his business as a deprogrammer. He told Coates about his idea to get on television as someone that “had deprogrammed fundamentalist Christians” in order to “stimulate some deprogramming cases in California.”

References

External links

Websites opposed to Rick Ross

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Ross_%28consultant%29

 


Reply
Recommend  Message 35 of 48 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCommunity_Moderator Sent: 5/17/2006 12:32 AM
We now have evidence that 'nccg_concern's' supplier of information in NCCG Cyber and DFD whom we call 'Mr.Mole' is doing far more than dishonestly passing on information from our private groups but is hacking into email accounts, IM conversations and personal harddrives. In short, we are dealing with a professional criminal.

Reply
Recommend  Message 36 of 48 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameZealforYahweh Sent: 5/17/2006 7:01 PM
Just one example of Ross's criteria for determining cults and my response:
 
 

Should Passover provide platform for annual Christian missionary programs?

Posted in Jews for Jesus at 8:52 am by Rick Ross

It’s Passover time and that means it’s the season for the annual traveling road show produced by the so-called “Jews for Jesus” (JFJ), an evangelical Christian missionary organization that targets Jews for conversion. The group sends out its faithful in touring buses every year to present “Christ in the Passover,” as reported by the Dakota Voice.

JFJ couple practicing for Passover

JFJ couple practicing for Passover

These programs are typically staged within evangelical and fundamentalist churches where JFJ puts on the program and then profits from contributions.

Passover is a proven fundraiser for JFJ, which has a multi-million-dollar budget and payroll to meet.

But the organized Jewish community has repeatedly expressed concern about such programs, which superimpose fundamentalist Christian beliefs over the historic understanding of the Jewish Passover observance.

JFJ presents its own rather ethnocentric, idiosyncratic version of Passover to evangelical Christian churches across the United States such as Grace Church of Toledo Ohio, Fremont Berean Bible Church in Nebraska and occasionally at mainline Protestant churches like Trinity United Methodist Church of Seymour, Indiana.

JFJ Seder display

JFJ Seder display

Needless to say Christian missionaries parading about, as “Jews” for Passover doesn’t exactly inspire enthusiasm amongst Jews, who most often observe its traditional Seder dinner in the privacy of home.

After all Passover and its Seder symbols have a long-established historic meaning that predates both Jesus and Christianity.

For those that have read Book of Exodus or watched the movie “Ten Commandments” Passover is not about Jesus or Christianity, it is a holiday specifically observed to commemorate the deliverance of Jews from bondage in ancient Egypt more than a millenium before the birth of Jesus.

But for JFJ this sacred Jewish holiday has been reduced essentially to a fund raising hook.

JFJ’s founder is Martin Rosen, a retired Baptist minister, who hit the road again not long ago when his brainchild had some budget problems.

Pastor Martin prefers to be called “Moishe,” which he seems to think makes him seem Jewish.

Jewish surnames also suffuse the list of front line JFJ staff, again giving the group a seemingly “Jewish” patina.

David Brickner

David Brickner

However, Rosen’s successor as the top “Jew” at JFJ, David Brickner, was recently exposed by author David Klinghoffer in the Jewish Journal as a “non-Jew.”

His bio on the JFJ Web site refers to him as “a fifth-generation Jewish believer in Jesus,” which means his family actually has been Christian for some time.  

And Brickner’s mother was not Jewish, which means he isn’t either according to any Orthodox understanding.

By Orthodox definition if a mother isn’t Jewish her baby isn’t either. And Brickner’s maternal grandmother was not Jewish.

Oops.

This means that by no Jewish definition would the JFJ leader even qualify as an apostate Jew, let alone simply as “Jewish.”

Not surprisingly JFJ’s funding comes essentially from sympathetic fellow believers within the Christian fundamentalist community.

But are these the same Christians who frequently say they “love” both Jews and Israel?

If these evangelicals truly “love” Jews why do they continue to so stubbornly support groups that offend Jews by falsely reinterpreting Jewish holidays?

It would seem that this continued support by many Christian fundamentalists demonstrates a disregard and/or insensitivity to the concerns of Jews, which has been repeatedly and publicly expressed?

In fairness it should be noted that some evangelical leaders have spoken out critically against groups like JFJ, such as Billy Graham.

drumpler Said:

May 13, 2006 at 6:40 am

What bothers me is the so-called superriority of many Jews when their cultural or ethnic traditions are challenged. So what! Let people think what they want to think. I myself am a Hebrew Roots Christian and identify Yah’shua Messiah (Jesus Chrst) as being a fulfillment of the Passover seder. Does this mean that I should stop believing as I do because such a belief upsets the Jews? I could feel threatened when people tell me I’m not Christian for keeping the Torah, but my philosophy is to move on — why does it matter what people think about what I believe? And why should their beliefs dictate my own?

People forget this wonderful thing called “choice”. While I do believe there is only one truth (how narrow-minded of me!), people have the freedom to regard it or disregard it. And as the previous poster said, it was Messiah who first identified Himself with the Passover meal, not the Christians.

If the Jews don’t want to convert to Christianity, they are free to disagree with the Christian missionaries. But that doesn’t mean it should thus become “illegal” for us to preach our own faith. We are just doing as our Messiah told us — making disciples of all nations. To cease doing what He says would cease to make us Christians just as to cease following Rabbinical Jewish traditions would cease to make someone a Rabbinical Jew. I say, if you are going to believe something, believe it totally or you don’t really believe in it at all. Thus I will proselytise the Jews because I believe it is right for me to do so and they are free to ignore me. Fair enough?

Sincerely,
Derek


Reply
Recommend  Message 37 of 48 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCadavi00 Sent: 5/17/2006 7:35 PM
So Rick Ross is possibly a Judaic believer.  Which I figure because he attacks everyone execpt Judaism.  Not only that he obviously has a thing against those who believe in Yahshua the Messiah.  I believe he goes after other belief systems because he doesn't want to look discriminatory towards belief in the Messiah.  I believe this man is deluded of reality.  His research is on actions only and not the doctrine that may form these thought patterns.  He would better profit himself and others by exposing dotrinal error and behaivoral patterns, which is unpredictable among all peoples, especially when there is room for doctrinal correction.  Belief causes the action not the other way around.  If he would come to Yahweh and let the Light of Truth shine on him and his work he could bring many from truly unsafe cults. 

Reply
Recommend  Message 38 of 48 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCadavi00 Sent: 5/17/2006 9:08 PM
Ignore the first sentence of my last post. It's obvious his beliefs are rooted in Judaism.
 

Reply
Recommend  Message 39 of 48 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknameteh_bondservant Sent: 5/19/2006 2:00 AM
all 'christian' groups have Judaic roots, because we could not have faith in our Messiah if we didn't believe the prophesy from the Judaic times.
Unless I'm misunderstanding what is implied by Judaic.
What exactly does Judaic refer to? My assumption would be that of the Israeli faith in the Elohim of Abraham, Noah, Jacob and David. Is something else implied and assumed?

Reply
Recommend  Message 40 of 48 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknameteh_bondservant Sent: 5/20/2006 6:13 AM
in observing your posts, and being in computer repair, I'll offer a suggestion.
 
There has been in the past many security holes in windows XP. Vulerablilities that left unpatched or unprotected on an XP machine well turn your machine into a spam machine. The program gets planted on your computer by a 'bot' computer which 'reads' your email address book or your email account settings, then proceeds to use that information as a spam sender. Many programs also turn your machine into a spambot or simply another attack bot. While the hacker you are suspecting may actually be a real individual, I suspect it is not. Most spambots are in Africa, as well as many of the phishing bots.
If you've ever filled in one of the forms you get claiming your paypal, ebay, chase or similar account was comprised, you just might have given this 'attacker' the info he needed. This is common.
 
Here's what you need to protect yourselves.
Update your computers with the windows updates. They are critical
Get a good software firewall, and learn how to use it. http://download.zonelabs.com/bin/free/1012_zl/zlsSetup_60_667_000.exe is the free version of a decent firewall, but there are others. Norton Internet Security has one, but it isn't free. This also is critical.
In addition, for those of you with DSL, cable or sattelite internet, get what's called a router. This is a small appliance device that sits between the internet modem and your computer. It will protect your computer from the 'bots' that scan your computer for vulerabilities. In addition, you can connect several computers to one internet modem through this router.
Keep your virus definitions up to date, and do regular scans.
Get anti-spyware software. A good free on is AdAware at http://www.download.com/3405-8022-5153545.html?part=dl-ad-aware&subj=dl&tag=top5 This program also requires regular updates. The updates are also free. This program hunts for spyware and adware on your computer. It also looks for keystroke loggers which could also be implanted on your computer to record your keystrokes and sent them to a user thru a sureptious email program. Most times these are hidden.
If you truly think your email account has been hacked, either log onto your internet service provider's website and change your password, and if they do not allow that online, then do it over the phone. If indeed your email account has been hacked, that will disable the person who hacked it, unless the intruder happens to be your internet service provider.
 
Most of my customer's computers that they think a hacker go into, was simply the computer had been compromised by a remote software attack. Sometimes these can be cleaned out with the programs above, other times the computer has to be wiped clean, and windows reloaded to get the machine purged.

Reply
Recommend  Message 41 of 48 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCadavi00 Sent: 5/20/2006 11:49 PM
Judaic believers don't believe in the Messiah, or rather that he has not come yet.

Reply
Recommend  Message 42 of 48 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameZealforYahweh Sent: 5/21/2006 10:32 PM
I found a picture of the NCCG Mole . . . Rat. Critical information!
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * *
* * * 
* *
* *
* * *
* * * * *
* * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * *
* * * 
* *
* *
* * *
* * * * *
* * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

(picture was here - - deleted from source to prevent direct linking. It was of a mole rat).
 


Reply
Recommend  Message 43 of 48 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCommunity_Moderator Sent: 5/22/2006 10:13 PM
Mr.Concern has been busy posting on his website again - there are so many lies and distortions that it is not even worth replying to. Most of what he writes is ad hominem attacks.
 
When critics start making personal attacks you know they are losing. His 'academic impartiality' has now given way to the heart of Mr.Concern who seems to be spending the better part of his life 'researching' us. There is a very bitter and angry man behind this.
 
IMO the only valid criticism he makes is in questioning the authenticity of three of the prophecies in the Olive Branch - you can get a handle on such criticisms, but the rest is just wind.
 
No matter, we have discovered more about Mr.Concern and will expose him finally for the deceiver he is. For one thing, we now now that Mr.Concern and Mr.Mole are one and the same. He is posing as someone in DFD and likely in here too. His attempt at distancing and being 'neutral' are wholly bogus.
 
His day is soon over.

Reply
Recommend  Message 44 of 48 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCommunity_Moderator Sent: 5/23/2006 10:07 PM
I have now read Mr.Concern's "Conclusion" at http://www.geocities.com/nccg_concern/debunk.html which is so laughable as to hardly be worth answering other than to say that Mr. Scientific suddenly became very paranoid and propagandistic - clearly venting a LOT of pent-up emotion. He really revealed his true colours here .. and his identity. What we see is a very angry, mocking and vengeful little boy striking out - reminds me of a former group member whom I kicked out for demeaning women in one of our chat rooms.
 
Some parts of his "research" (sic.) had me rolling on the floor - they were just too comical. Like the comparison between the Bible and the Olive Branch - the two-column format, no doubt. I took a look around my library and found some scientific text books, encyclopedieas and dictionaries arranged in precisely the same format. So you now know, using Concern's logic, that the writers of your dictionary were trying to make you believe it was a Bible after all. He also has no idea about the difference between verbal and conceptual revelation. But I won't go into that unless anyone is interested. It's written about at length on the webpage.
 
And I certainly don't need him or anyone else trying to debunk SRA. I wish it was as he claimed, but it is very, very real. It would make my life simpler if it wasn't. I just hope he or his family never gets picked up by one of those abusers.
 
If there is anyone in the Group who is concerned about any of the other points raised in Concern's rantings I would be happy to answer them. However, I don't have time to systematically expose every "exposé" like this that comes along as I have more important things to do, neither will I be baited by this very immature person.  Most sensible people will see through him. I just pity him if his rantings deceive the least logically-minded and lead them away from salvation, and for those who have been subjected to the abuses of the so-called "de-programmers" - I know one person has been hurt very badly by them. He is ultimately answerable to these victims of his own issues and to Yahweh Himself. He is playing with fire.
 
He must live with himself. As for me, my household, and those who fellowship with us, we are at peace and will continue following Yahweh. If Concern has scared off sincere investigators, I bless them and hope Yahweh will lead them to caring fellowships.
 
 
 
 

Reply
Recommend  Message 45 of 48 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameZealforYahweh Sent: 5/23/2006 10:17 PM
I think its this same person you named also. Remember, he SWORE he would "expose" us. They are very much alike, as you said.
 
Sincerely,
Derek

Reply
Recommend  Message 46 of 48 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCommunity_Moderator Sent: 6/4/2006 9:16 PM
It seems that Mr. Concern has not only gone to a great deal of trouble and expense to get his tabloid website translated into Swedish but has even been in contact with the local newspapers to stir them up. Why would a person go to such lengths? Just what are his motives? Why is he so concerned about a small, simple group of harmelss, peace-loving Christians who have good relations with the local community, don't pester people, and evangelise in a way so as not to bother anyone who does not want to know our beliefs? We respect the quiet, non-obtrusive way of life of our host country, we don't go knocking on doors or evangelising on the streets (though we do so in other countries where this is more common), and simply let people find us through the internet or through personal contact.  For Mr.Concern to go to all this trouble over such a few people who respect free speech, encourage dialogue and discussion between people of different beliefs, honour democracy and expect mutual accountability, is not normal behaviour - it is quite simply pathological behaviour. It may be normal to behave in such a whacky way in the United States but not here in Sweden which is a pluralistic society not accustomed to the kind of slick propaganda, media hype and spin that characterises the background of Mr.Concern and his ilk. To put it in succinctly, old Mr. "Cult" Concern has got a grudge of some sort and is just venting but in a way that is irresponsible and lacking accountability. He is too much of a coward to even say who he is, resorts to ad hominem personal attacks and generally behaves like a sulking little boy who has been sent to bed because he smashed up the crockery when told to eat up his dinner.
 
One person who has recently been through the "cult deprogrammers" came and visited us and though he was very suspicious of us at first satisfied himself that we were not a cult as we fulfilled none of the criteria he had been taught. Doubtless others who have been subjected to similar indignities who visit us will arrive at the same conclusion. Meanwhile life continues normally here, people come and go as they want and as they always have done. for fellowship and praise.
 
As for Mr.Concern I have only this to say to him now: Yah'shua says this to you - your time is coming to an end and you have taken this far enough.
 
Repent.

Reply
Recommend  Message 47 of 48 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCommunity_Moderator Sent: 6/4/2006 10:11 PM
Update
 
So that our readers can be satisfied about the criminal activities of  "Mr.'Cult' Concern" one of our current Swedish visitors here (whom I will call 'Anders') had his email account hacked into and was sent two emails sent from his own two different email accounts at Yahoo and Hotmail addresses containing warnings about NCCG and links to nccg_concern before he arrived. He was invited here by telephone by one of our members (who does not live at HQ) some weeks ago and we had no knowledge of his visit until hours before he arrived.
 
'Anders' actually checked us out with a 'Cult Watch' group some months before he visited us and arrived here, like the visitor in the previous post (though he was
'deprogrammed'), having carefully made his own investigations. Now that he has seen us and how we are, he has since apologised for entertaining doubts as to our integrity (though we told him none were required since we believe people have the right to carefully check us out). He is not a member of NCCG and belongs to another Christian Church.
 
Mr. 'Cult' Concern and/or his allies are dangerous criminals. Too afraid to be identified and made accountable, or have his credentials checked, he has either himself hacked into others' email accounts or employed others to do it for him. How, indeed, we need to ask ourselves, does this man know about the people visiting here in advance? Is he tapping our telephone conversations too? What sort of lengths is he actually going to? The man is either virulently malicious or mentally ill.
 
As I have said in previous posts, he will be exposed - he and his allies - for the truth will prevail. In a word, Yahweh wins and he loses.
 
If you would like to know how Mr. Concern and his allies like Rick Ross operate, see:
 
 
And whilst I have good reason that other forces are at work "behind" Ross, Concern and allies, I will only make mention here of their anonymous 'front man' (Concern) who has presumably been generously funded by someone to translate his defamatory website into Swedish.
 
 

Reply
The number of members that recommended this message. 0 recommendations  Message 48 of 48 in Discussion 

Sent: 6/4/2006 10:12 PM
This message has been deleted by the manager or assistant manager.

Reply
Recommend  Message 49 of 50 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCommunity_Moderator Sent: 6/5/2006 2:47 PM
Identifiying nccg_concern and his allies
 
I mentioned in an earlier post that we are getting close to exposing nccg_concern and his/her allies.
 
About three years ago the group was infiltrated by a satanist who called herself 'Anna' and posed as a deliverance minister at DFD. Her attacks were subtle at first and she sounded like a genuine believer. She hacked into the MSN account of one our clients who went under the nic 'Charli' and even posted in her name (see first post below). We have dug up some of her old posts, two of which which are reproduced here, because we have discovered she is working with nccg_concern:
 
From: Charli  (Original Message) Sent: 21/08/2003 19:22
Hi all.....
 
Just wanted to say hello. Good to see another group discussing finding Freedom in Christ.
There are many people trapped in boundage and we as believers have an obligation to share with others the power of God to set them free.
 
I look forward to getting to know you all. Yahweh bless.
 
Peace and smiles......Charli

 
From: Anna  (Original Message) Sent: 12/12/2003 16:05
Hi All,
 
Just wanted to say hello. My name is Anna and I just recently came across your group. I am glad to be a part of it and look forward to fellowshipping and learning with you all.
 
I do have a little "Food for Thought". If Satan has already been disarmed, as the bible says - what then do you all believe the spiritual fight is about? I personally lean toward it being about removing scales from blinded eyes and exposing the lies of our enemy. I don't believe that is a complicated process, concerning Satan that. He is defeated, end of story; however dealing with past hurts and lies based on those past hurts does sometimes take some time.
 
Any thoughts?
 
God's Blessings,
Anna

 
I can confirm that she is back in our groups under a different nic and has been helping Mr.Concern. She is a satanist.
 
The net is closing in on nccg_concern and his allies. The truth will out.
 
 

Reply
Recommend  Message 50 of 50 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCommunity_Moderator Sent: 6/5/2006 4:25 PM
We have now discovered Mr.Concern is a non-believer and anti-Christian like the Rick Ross Institute (so-called) whose goal is to 'deprogram' Christians who do not belong to the larger groups who have more economic and political clout (like the Mormons whom Ross & Co. do not classify as a cult - apparently Ross underestimated the Scientologists who were a bit 'bigger' than he thought when they sued him an a cult 'deprogramming' group for kidnapping and won). We also know that there is a group of people working on his website, including the satanist 'Anna' (mentioned in the last post), a man whom I will just call Z for now (we know who he is), a 'believer', who is venting because his pride was upset when we threw him off a group for demeaning women (he is an aspirant polygamist who was planning to 'buy' himself a second wife from a Militia Group in the USA) and who is responsible for the 'anaylsis' and 'critique' of the Olive Branch and possibly the last personal diatribe on Mr.Concern's website, and possible one or two other people.
 
As I promised, the whole truth will out. More will be coming including the full identity of Mr.Concern, his hacking aids, and the other criminal riff-raff of his motley crew. As you will see, he is a Rick Ross look-alike, and if he doesn't have a criminal record, the chances are if he continues in this vein that he will soon have one.
 

Reply
Recommend  Message 51 of 53 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameZealforYahweh Sent: 6/8/2006 7:54 PM
If anyone wants to see the current discussion I am having with Mr. Ross, they are free to check out the discussion here:
 

Reply
Recommend  Message 52 of 53 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCadavi00 Sent: 6/8/2006 9:27 PM
Good one Derek.  Maybe Mr. Ross will now realize how illogical it is to define a cult by behavior separate from belief because you can't.  Like you basically said a persons belief defines the behavior, whether they stick strickly to the belief of a doctrine or mix in their own personal beliefs.  I thought everyone learned in science class in elementary and middle school that behavior is somethings learned which affects outlook and action of a person or animal.  I'm not a scholar nor the most educated but that is plain common sense.

Reply
Recommend  Message 53 of 53 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCommunity_Moderator Sent: 6/14/2006 1:20 PM
Considering the propaganada that satanists put out and the clever way they warn of'Christian cults' (Jim Jones was a New Ager who was later dubbed an 'evangelical Christian' - evangelicals don't believe that Yah'shua is going to incarnate a second time, let alone that He is an incarnation of other deities and Lenin too), it is little wonder that people get confused. The following is illustrative:
 
 
 

Reply
Recommend  Message 54 of 54 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCadavi00 Sent: 7/5/2006 11:45 PM
http://www.geocities.com/nccg_concern/false.html Looks like he's at it again.  I believe he tells on himself though because a couple of references made by him like: "He accuses me of hacking a particular NCCG member's Yahoo and Hotmail accounts in posts elsewhere as well as the one shown here. The supposed reason for my doing this was so that I could send the person email from his own email address. This is a false accusation, as I did not hack anyone's email accounts as is described."
 
Funny how he never denies being a hacker.
 
"The accusation made here and in another post that I am the individual who sent these emails to this person, which is effectively a separate accusation from the "hacking", is false. I did not send emails like the one Christopher Warren describes to any NCCG member."
 
No denial of ever sending emails to NCCG members.

"The claim that "The net is closing in on nccg_concern and his allies" was at this time false. In reality, Christopher Warren had been making statements that suggest he was on the completely wrong track."

He say "the net" closing in on him and his allies at that time was false, well what does it mean now Mr? Concern.  If the aforementioned Christopher Warren was on the "wrong track" then what track is he on now Mr. Concern?

"I do not know if Christopher Warren would actually follow through with trying to sue me, but I am generally not afraid of him attempting it. I would spend the money required for my defense and see the outcome; why not, you know? For the reasons stated earlier, I believe that him suing me would be a tactical mistake on his part, and he would essentially screw himself if he tried it."

Why would you even bother mentioning him attempting to sue you if he isn't close to identifying you?  If you didn't believe Yahweh has or will reveal your identity to him you wouldn't mention an legal action on his part now would you Mr. Concern?



First  Previous  39-53 of 53  Next  Last